Had a small-ish accident

[Libertad]

Hi everyone. I'd like to share my most recent accident story with fellow Libertarians, in the hopes that someone will be able to guide me in the right direction. In the least, someone will have something funny to say which should (I hope) put me in a good mood. Thinking about this situation is driving me nuts.

But briefly put, here's the issue at hand:

A few days ago, whilst driving in to work around 7am on Carlingford Road (heading towards Epping), I ran into the back of the vehicle in front.

When I got out of my car, I found that he'd run into the car in front of him. And the car in front of him had run into the car in front of that.

Here's a diagram:

Me --> Car 3 --> Car 2 --> Car 1

Car 1 was stopped in the middle of the road, giving way to a truck that apparently was backing out onto the street.

I really don't know what happened. All I know is that car 3 was at one moment driving along at a normal pace and then the next moment I was in contact car 3's rear end. It happened instantaneously.

Here's the damage situation:

My car's front: Almost no sign of damage. Slight hint of paint transfer from car 3. Bent front rego plate. Washed the car and most of the paint transfer's gone. No sign of an accident, except for the rego plate.

Car 3's rear: Almost no damage. A bit of paint transfer from my car.

Car 3's front: Total destruction. Bonnet crumpled. Engine fluids on ground (oil and coolant). Car needed to be towed. A write-off I'd say considering the car was an old 90's Corolla.

Car 2's rear: Damaged. Not too bad though. Holden Astras seem to have strong rear ends.

Car 2's front. Not too bad. Bent front bumper. Main damage was in the engine bay. Coolant leaked out onto the ground. Car needed a tow.

Car 1's rear: Almost no sign of damage. Late model Camry. Looked unharmed by the incident.

==================

The police and fire crew were called to the scene (by someone... we don't know who called them). Fire crew cleaned up the engine oil and coolant from the street. Police took statements from everyone.

Here's what I told the officer:

1. Judging from the fact (I have pictures to corroborate... taken with my new iPhone) that my front and car 3's rear have almost no sign of damage, there couldn't have been much energy transfer between our two cars.

2. Judging from the fact that car 3's front and car 2's rear end had lots of damage, this to me means that they were in collision with each other in a major way.

3. Since, from point 1 above, it is established that there was very little energy involved in the collision between my car and car 3, this means that I did not shunt car 3 into car 2. Car 3 must already have collided with car 2 due to the driver in car 3 not paying attention to the road in front on him, thus causing it to come to an instant stop. As a result, I did not have time to stop and I ended up hitting his rear.

The officer seemed to agree with what I was saying. He had me sign in his notebook that what he'd written was what I'd said. Since I was the first person he spoke to, after gathering my statement, he told me that I was free to go.

I left the scene and came to work.

After two hours the same officer called me back. Told me that I was getting a $300 ticket for negligent driving. Said I was following too close to car 3. Ok, fair enough. Didn't really contest that.

What upsets me quite a lot, however, is that after I left, the guy in car 3 started telling the office that he felt a push from behind and that caused him to get shunted into car 2. The officer told me that, since he couldn't validate whether what he was saying was a lie or not, car 3's driver would NOT be getting the same $300 ticket.

My worry now is that car 3's driver will contact his insurer and will try to pin something on me. The guy's obviously keen on lying.

Oh... and to add to the problem. The mobile number I gave to all parties on the day of the accident changed the next day. I forgot that I had arranged with Optus to have my number changed. So, I ended up giving everyone my old number. The next day my number changed. Wondering if anyone's been trying to get a hold of me. Hmmm...


Anyways... thoughts/advice on the above situation is highly appreciated.

[ultrablue]

sounds like he is trying to pin it on you and since you have the ticket looks like he has got away with, it as long as your insured dont worry about it let them fight it out

[coyote]

Anyways... thoughts/advice on the above situation is highly appreciated.

Pay more attention when driving or always make sure there is someone behind you to blame it on.

[kvn]

well hopefully the police report corroborates your story.. end of the day the insurance company will most probably go off what is written in the incident report. police crash investigators aren't stupid, they can usually tell what happen in the event of an accident.

thats why we have tv shows like Crash Investigation Unit..

[Arith]

Sorry to hear about your run in, but I think you might be boned. Because you were the one doing the rear ending, they will all try to blame it on you because it will be very hard to disprove otherwise. Yes, the impact for the guy in front of you with the guy in front of him is of greater impact, but it will be hard to prove that if you had not touched him, he would have stopped in time not to run into the guy in front. Were there any serious injuries? If not, not sure if the Crash Investigation Unit will get involved to prove your theories.

But yeah, I hate the fact that despite already being blamed and probably footing the bill for everyone's car, you get a ticket on top of it to say you were negligent.

Keep us updated! I'm curious to know whether they make you pay for everyone, or whether 1 claims from 2, 2 claims from 3, etc.

Hopefully SkoobyGT is still around so we can see what he thinks.

[overl0ad]

from an insurance point of view, i think they'll pin it all on you.

can't really be clear on the sequence of events unless you have a 3rd party witness who was standing by the roadside looking at it all.

in any case, i'm pretty sure taht as long as you rear end someone, you're in the wrong. even if he slams on his brakes for no reason...

at least you car isn't gonna need extensive work and you won't be without your baby for too long.

[Kevlar GT]

What's the minimum speed for a front end to cause the air bag to open? Obviously you didn't reach that level, i'd be telling them to shove it personally. See how you go i guess. Unfortunately either have to pay the fine or take th time out to fight the judgement.

[SkoobyGT]

Arith mate, don't fear I am here.

Everyone has their own opinions on what has happened, hence why it is called an opinion. I will give you a little bit of fact, which some has been explained above.

Police obtained a version, and as you stated you were the first he spoke to. For him to take only your version, and believe it, I can tell you is not going to happen. Basically it's not what police hear, it's what he can prove. Police are trained in Investigations, and have been to a lot more crashes than most people.

By him ringing you and letting you know you get the ticket, he has made his mind up on what happened in the collision (IE you being at fault for at least one collision). If he didn't give any other tickets out (from what he told you) then basically he see's you as the sole cause of the crash between every vehicle.

You can take time off to fight it, thats up to you. But if police give a ticket they have enough information to convict you of it. It will be you versus, the police, prosecutors, drivers, and witness's, but it is your right to take it to court.

Police under Legislation / SOP's MUST give the driver at fault an infringement after a collision, if it fits police criteria in the first place to investigate.

By you telling him in your opinion this is what happened, he would take that with a grain of salt. He will then speak to ALL other drivers, and witness's and obtain an accurate version of what happened. This is THE only way an almost perfect recollection is created.

Police investigate what occurred, make a report, and you then ring up to get the Event number, and give it to your insurance company. The insurance company then pay for the report and or interview the police, on who the officer believed to be at fault.

You will pay for your excess I take it, but who cares how many cars need to be fixed, it won't cost you any more.

And no Crash (Crash Investigation Unit) won't come. They only do Fatal MVA or where someone is about to die.

Maybe keep a safe distance from the car in front, because thats the reason you got the ticket in the first place.

You walked away thats the main thing, because I see people that don't.

In life we live we learn, everyone makes mistakes.

[swingn]

In life we live we learn, everyone makes mistakes.

Hear Hear!

I was in a similar situation years & years ago, except I was the one who got hit!

Guy who hit me got a ticket for neg driving & I just had to deal with my car for 2 months. Actually supprised they didn't write mine off. Was a 18k car with 12k worth of damage

Glad to hear your ok mate. As Skooby said, things could have been a lot worse.

Hope to catch up with you soon!

[gumbyy]

Glad to hear you are safe and sound buddy, and I don't think they will pin it all on you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but each driver in the collision had a responsibility to keep a certain amount of distance away from the car in front of them isn't that right?. You hit car car 3, fair enough. I was under the impression that all rear end collisions are caused by the one who did the rear ending, regardless of a pile up.

Unless of course the force of impact was enough to catapult the car 15 meters into the one in front which thankfully isn't the case here. Some verification on this would be nice!

[SkoobyGT]

No each driver doesnt get a ticket.

It all depends on what the driver says to police. Too hard to go in detail on here but it comes down to who was stopped or moving, speed of all cars, how many impacts/collisions each car felt etc etc. Police can then make a determination on who was at fault etc.

[gtspec]

thats one bad situation, and to think i travel on that road to work every morning around the same time..

glad to see your ok thou and i think the best thing from this point is to learn from it and move on.. happens to all of us

[Libertad]

he see's you as the sole cause of the crash between every vehicle.
...
Maybe keep a safe distance from the car in front, because thats the reason you got the ticket in the first place.
...
In life we live we learn, everyone makes mistakes.

Yes, I feared as much

Agreed

Agreed

SkoobyGT. I assume you're a cop. Good to have a cop's view point, as I always find it interesting how the "boys in blue" think.

Well, if the cop's already deemed me to be guilty, then in my opinion he hasn't served justice. Can I do anything about it? Probably not. I've never had to take a matter to court before in my life. I wouldn't have the fainest clue of how to approach this issue.

Have I learned a lesson? For sure. Do I agree that I should get a ticket? Yes, by all means. As I said in my original post, I didn't contest getting a ticket.

What concerns me is that the ENTIRE accident will be pinned on me, which just isn't right. Car 3 hit car 2 on his own accord. I'm only responsible for hitting car 3. If I get blamed for the whole thing, then you get bet your bottom dollar that I'll drag all four drivers, including the law, into a court room.

Thanks for everyone's opinions. Didn't really improve my mood. Truth's a hard thing to face sometimes I suppose.

gtspec. I think I may have seen you from time-to-time on Carlingford Road.

[SkoobyGT]

I'm not a cop

As you stated you made a mistake, so be it. People make mistakes every day.

Let me ask you this, if you pay your ticket for your neg drive, does it really matter how many cars your "at fault" for damaging? I mean if your insurance told you that they would just see you at fault for damaging the car in front, but not all the others, that is in no way going to change your excess at all.

Just pay the ticket, it will then go away. No court to go to, and youll learn. Most people have been in a similar situation before. It's not the end of the world. Give it a few weeks and you would have forgot all about it.

[Arith]

Time to invest some money into some Brembo's!