MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien - EOI welcome / FS

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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:14 pm

alexeiwoody wrote:
dr20t wrote:Thanks for the links

Anyone know whether target boost tables have an influence on dbw / throttle maps when I'm running stand alone ebc?


They do. However not in the way you're concerned about.

You won't experience boost fluctuations or engine misbehaviour, it will only affect your TCU, ie gear shifting.


Thanks Aladdin but are you certain about that?

Load is calculated off various sensors (including maf and map) but I can't help but have a "gut feel" that throttle position and therefore dbw have an impact on load. Therefore by extension anything impacting the throttle tables (such as target boost even when not used to control boost) will have an impact on ecu calculated engine load.

Taking this further, if true, then this would affect timing and fueling at that load/ rev range given the primary open loop and timing base tables are based on load (not static load but rather calculated load from the above parameters)

Am I way off track here?

Mick
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby <GB> » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:53 pm

so its not a misfire but more of a surge?
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:12 pm

<GB> wrote:so its not a misfire but more of a surge?


Yeah definitely a surge gb then the lean condition causes slight backfire
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby <GB> » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:16 pm

dr20t wrote:
<GB> wrote:so its not a misfire but more of a surge?


Yeah definitely a surge gb then the lean condition causes slight backfire

it sounds like that surge issue were the guys were getting a pulse through the fuel line and guys added dampeners or 1 meter of extra fuel line and it helped.
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby alexeiwoody » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:23 pm

dr20t wrote:
alexeiwoody wrote:
dr20t wrote:Thanks for the links

Anyone know whether target boost tables have an influence on dbw / throttle maps when I'm running stand alone ebc?


They do. However not in the way you're concerned about.

You won't experience boost fluctuations or engine misbehaviour, it will only affect your TCU, ie gear shifting.


Thanks Aladdin but are you certain about that?

Load is calculated off various sensors (including maf and map) but I can't help but have a "gut feel" that throttle position and therefore dbw have an impact on load. Therefore by extension anything impacting the throttle tables (such as target boost even when not used to control boost) will have an impact on ecu calculated engine load.

Taking this further, if true, then this would affect timing and fueling at that load/ rev range given the primary open loop and timing base tables are based on load (not static load but rather calculated load from the above parameters)

Am I way off track here?

Mick



Hahaha Alladin :lol:

I drove around for a while on some really stupid target boost tables (nearly the whole table of 20s, trying to see how fast we can make boost), while the boost controller was connected and also disconnected (running a manual controller at the time). No engine stumble, no surging, no misbehaving at all.

The only noticeable difference now that I'm using the ECU boost control and the target boost is set up in a sensible shape - the gearbox sees 'correct load', will drop gears more readily on deceleration and shifts smoother all around.

If you have any doubts, just set your target boost as close as you can to your actual boost. IMO it won't help your issue, but might be more predictable to drive if tables are currently way off.

If you want to see the other extreme - wherever in the target boost tables that your lib is normally on boost - change those values to be all max boost (whatever you're running). You'll notice on fast deceleration from 100/80 to a stop, the 5eat will want to stay in higher gear and will fight you with the brakes. Mine was as bad as staying in 3rd even as my speedo hit 0, then clunking through two gears while the brakes were fighting against the loaded driveshafts.

IMO if it was your Trgt Boost, you and Rome would have noticed on your old setups.
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:28 pm

Haha don't know how I got Aladdin that was autocorrect at its best. Magic carpets and shit...

Yes your explanation makes perfect sense thank you.

And agreed

Matt has just emailed me a tune without the calculate engine tables etc so will flash that tomorrow and see how we go

Anyone else care to advise on the pre turbo exhaust leak or any of my other possibilities I've listed as mechanical and / or tune related in the last few pages?

Mick
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:30 pm

<GB> wrote:
dr20t wrote:
<GB> wrote:so its not a misfire but more of a surge?


Yeah definitely a surge gb then the lean condition causes slight backfire

it sounds like that surge issue were the guys were getting a pulse through the fuel line and guys added dampeners or 1 meter of extra fuel line and it helped.


Hmmm gb you might be right

I don't have the stock regulator setup as you know

I have a Y block and long fuel lines with parralel fuel setup off the sard fpr in in the middle of the engine bay mounted to the pitch stop mount
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby <GB> » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:43 pm

well mine has a little surge like that and I added 1m of extra hose and it didn't help mine, but it might be worth trying it as its easy job
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby jaydece » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:05 pm

dr20t wrote:Haha don't know how I got Aladdin that was autocorrect at its best. Magic carpets and shit...

Yes your explanation makes perfect sense thank you.

And agreed

Matt has just emailed me a tune without the calculate engine tables etc so will flash that tomorrow and see how we go

Anyone else care to advise on the pre turbo exhaust leak or any of my other possibilities I've listed as mechanical and / or tune related in the last few pages?

Mick


Brother? I have only skimmed through the pages......does LV show up anything? resetting the ECU? does the problem still show as evident? if you disable the 02 sensor and/or run the car in open loop the whole time is the problem there?

dont know if this will help....just quick things that come to mind...
~JUSZTN~

** Our Turbo Lag Gives Those v8's A Chance **

History - MY07 Liberty TBSTI 6SPD Sedan
265kw atw on P100
290kw atw on E85 (fuel pump limited)


Past - MY16 Audi S3 Sedan
249kw atw on P98 (APR stage 1)

Present - MY18 Audi RS3 Sedan (His)
384kw atw on E85 (APR stage 2)

Present - MY17 VW Tiguan 162 R line (Hers)
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:18 pm

Justin where you been?!!

Tried all of those things man - ran in open loop full time etc etc

No change

I've tried so many fkn things its not funny
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:31 pm

bigBADbenny wrote:Can you temporarily bridge the comp cover to the waste gate pressure signal port and log it just at waste gate pressure?
If possible that could rule out a lot of contributors on the boost control side.


Bump my suggestion :)

And or tee one of these in between the last Y and the FPR :P
http://www.injector.com/cart/pc/viewPrd ... category=4
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:40 pm

bigBADbenny wrote:
bigBADbenny wrote:Can you temporarily bridge the comp cover to the waste gate pressure signal port and log it just at waste gate pressure?
If possible that could rule out a lot of contributors on the boost control side.


Bump my suggestion :)

And or tee one of these in between the last Y and the FPR :P


Sorry Benny forgot to respond

Whilst I haven't tried this directly, I have tried to bypass the boost controller and just run wastegae on its own mechanical limitation - this also did nothing

The other thing is - even if I bypass it, the ewg is mounted on the uppipe adapter, so if there's a leak in the diaphragm or valve itself (or surfaces), doing what you suggest won't change that, as it will still present a physical leak / mechanical issue
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby jaydece » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:58 pm

dr20t wrote:Justin where you been?!!

Tried all of those things man - ran in open loop full time etc etc

No change

I've tried so many fkn things its not funny


Fark.......I hate these stupid faults....last time I had something similar I almost toke the whole car apart....and in the end it was a faulty 02 sensor....clearly for you this is not the case....

Yes I can tell this has been bugging you.....cant think from the top of my head what other optons/suggestions to make?

Where have I been?....i've been around...but only as to quickly visit and skim in and out of the forum....work is taking a big priority atm....If I think of anything....i'll be sure to post brother...
~JUSZTN~

** Our Turbo Lag Gives Those v8's A Chance **

History - MY07 Liberty TBSTI 6SPD Sedan
265kw atw on P100
290kw atw on E85 (fuel pump limited)


Past - MY16 Audi S3 Sedan
249kw atw on P98 (APR stage 1)

Present - MY18 Audi RS3 Sedan (His)
384kw atw on E85 (APR stage 2)

Present - MY17 VW Tiguan 162 R line (Hers)
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:03 pm

dr20t wrote:Small update

Housing has been changed. VE speed density table tweaked

Image[/url]


I just realized something

That graph shows a lean spike at 85-90kmh

That's at about 3000-3500 rpm - so not at the rev and load zone I'm experiencing
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:05 pm

Forcing wastegate pressure would prove if the issue was exhaust, fuel, spark etc related or boost vac related: imho :)
But I could be mistaken :)

Maybe the Sard has insufficient damping even for the parallel lines setup?
2 Y's might not help either.
Thus use a big damper or a dual entry FPR eg Turbosmart 1200 that contains a big damper...

another culprit: broken Evap solenoid...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2486013
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