The E85 Thread

[alexeiwoody]

Cihan from Edgeworks.

[<GB>]

U could actually get him to do it lol !!

[alexeiwoody]

U could actually get him to do it lol !!

Yep, he is a busy man. And I got to see some crazy Supras

[KiDo_Tuning]

Bruce organised for EcuFlash to be set from 9 to 16.4 in this:
<table name="Info Panel Fuel Consumption Correction" category="Fuel" address="c1850" type="2D" level="1" scaling="rawecuvalue">
<description>This is the correction applied to the fuel efficiency calculation to account for injector size change. Adjust this value by the same percentage as used for injector scaling. NewCorrection = CurrentCorrection * (NewInjectorScale / OldInjectorScale)</description>
<table name="Fuel Efficiency Correction" type="Static Y Axis" elements="1">
<data>Value</data>
</table>
</table>

Just I know Bruce has previously set it based on the injector size in the tune and not the actual fuel flow percentage figure increase(82% increase for ID1000's)

Either way, good to see your finally a believer that good fuel economy on E85 is possible!

http://romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10725

[alexeiwoody]

Just I know Bruce has previously set it based on the injector size in the tune and not the actual fuel flow percentage figure increase(82% increase for ID1000's)

Either way, good to see your finally a believer that good fuel economy on E85 is possible!

http://romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10725

Thank you...My fuel efficiency correction table was originally scaled by running 4 full tanks of fuel and recording the distances vs display.

I forgot we started tuning from scratch today. I may have forgotten to apply the bugger....

[alexeiwoody]

Ok. Seems I had a leak somewhere. Possibly fixed...just need to check the BOV.

Proper (ID1000 adjusted in the display) economy - avg 9-11L/100km on freeway, down from 15L/100. Much more realistic for E85, while still awesome....and without an active boost leak this time

Just based on that Cihan definitely seems to know what he's doing.

[Evozn]

How many Kms could I get to a tank on E85? I currently get ~420km a tank running 98 octane.

[jaydece]

How many Kms could I get to a tank on E85? I currently get ~420km a tank running 98 octane.

That all depends on your style of driving, cars condition, stop start driving? fwy? many things to factor in...

On mine everyday mix driving I get anywhere between 380-450km per tank...On spirited driving runs I'll get anywhere between 300-350km per tank...

I have noticed though? with the colder whether conditions here in melb....my car is throwing more fuel in....so my above usual tank runs are 5-10% off...To me this is normal and makes logical sense..

I believe this to be occuring during cold start and warm up procedures and/or stop start runs in between......plus in addition I always warm up my car 1st before leaving....

Most times I will reference using torque and/or similar to gauge once the car is at a optimal temp that I'm happy with...worse case..wait for the blue light to go out...

I used to setup alerts in torque to tell me once the car was a at certain temp / condition...but it gets annoying after while...so its disabled for the moment...

[alexeiwoody]

Bit of an update for E85 users re: black ethanol sludge scares

180,000kms on the clock. Replaced my pump and fuel filters just before going to E85.

10000kms+ on the corn juice, took apart the fuel filter assy to check for sludge build up. Happy to say it's all very clean. Both fuel filters and pump look neat/clean and in good condition. Also had no problem supporting engine power/cold starts etc.

Ran P100 for about 5000-10000kms prior to the very first switch, perhaps that helped. But even the old fuel filter wasn't "black", although clearly used.

Engine oil test results coming back in the next day or so, done about 4000-5000kms on this batch of 5w30 Amsoil. Hoping to get the all clear for another 2000kms and a dyno tune in between

[KiDo_Tuning]

From the E85 H6 thread For the small amount of effort involved, running P100 before going E85(changing the filters and the pump at same time) ensures no long term issues

Even JEM in Sydney are now doing the same process, P100 for a few tanks before converting(confirmed with Adam@JEM and the MacRex guys)

I don't know if it's the same for the H6, but I do that with my 2.5i.
I usually use caltex due to it's proximity to my home. But whenever I'm on the other side of town or going for a long drive (like to Canberra-Sydney), I fill up at United with E85.

Matts Flex Fuel tune takes care of the rest.

Personally I was running P100 before my E85 tune with Matt. I upgraded my fuel pump first (didn't change the filter at that stage). Then Matt tuned the car on E85. I actually ran on E85 for a couple of months and then flashed back to a BP98 tune for a while. Then recently got a retune with Matt on his flex fuel tune again and this time I changed the in tank filter. Cut it open, it was black.

[alexeiwoody]

Oil test results are in (don't have the printout, unless someone here really wants to see it)

Oil - Amsoil 5w30 (diesel version) used for around 4500kms
Engine - EJ255 rebuilt by Phil Lowe, around 8000kms ago. Makes around double factory power.
Fuel - E85 (it gets into the oil quicksmart. When I was using Delvac, it stank of ethanol. Still smells quite strongly)
Driving conditions - like a madman 30%, sane/legal 50%, cruising 20% + 5hr dyno tune done on this batch.

Test results - Almost no metal particles (5 parts of copper and 8 parts of chrome to 1,000,000 iirc). Viscosity of oil is up 10%, standard for changing oil is 25%, I'll aim to change around 20% to be safe.

In Bill's words - "oil is perfect".

Hoping to get another dyno tune out of this and maybe try and push it to 9000kms and get it retested. For future driving (ie hoping to not need to do dynos that frequently or ever again), hoping to get 10,000km changes out of it. But in the meantime, will wait and see how the oil holds up

[Sean82]

From the E85 H6 thread For the small amount of effort involved, running P100 before going E85(changing the filters and the pump at same time) ensures no long term issues

Even JEM in Sydney are now doing the same process, P100 for a few tanks before converting(confirmed with Adam@JEM and the MacRex guys)

I don't know if it's the same for the H6, but I do that with my 2.5i.
I usually use caltex due to it's proximity to my home. But whenever I'm on the other side of town or going for a long drive (like to Canberra-Sydney), I fill up at United with E85.

Matts Flex Fuel tune takes care of the rest.

Personally I was running P100 before my E85 tune with Matt. I upgraded my fuel pump first (didn't change the filter at that stage). Then Matt tuned the car on E85. I actually ran on E85 for a couple of months and then flashed back to a BP98 tune for a while. Then recently got a retune with Matt on his flex fuel tune again and this time I changed the in tank filter. Cut it open, it was black.

What's the idea behind it?

Use the lower ethanol content of the P100 to clean the tank of deposits then install fresh filter for E85?

[KiDo_Tuning]

What's the idea behind it?

Use the lower ethanol content of the P100 to clean the tank of deposits then install fresh filter for E85?

98 leaves a varnish in the fuel lines, which is actually why ethanol causes so many issues in older cars. The fuel lines in say a 1990 Ford Laser actually has porous fuel lines, the petrol actually seals the fuel into the system. So adding ethanol strips the varnish off the fuel lines, off the fuel tank and then it ends up in the fuel filter and old fuel pump. This is why mechanics loved seeing all these sh!t heaps coming into their workshops with fuel issues after E10 was introduced. Try telling a little old lady that her $0.10 cheaper fuel per litre that she used for a month just cost her $1000 for a full overhaul of new fuel lines(weeping fuel visibly from fuel lines) and her fuel pump, injectors and fuel filter needed to be replaced

By stripping that gunk from the system in the parts your removing, your eliminating contaminants from the system. Cars sitting in garages barely driven, the more varnish accumulates as it is static.

Converting to P100 for a few tanks gets the crap into the old pump and filter. It takes a while for the varnish to discolour the fuel filters but it definitely happens! New filter and pump, all sorted

[KiDo_Tuning]

Oil test results are in (don't have the printout, unless someone here really wants to see it)

Oil - Amsoil 5w30 (diesel version) used for around 4500kms
Engine - EJ255 rebuilt by Phil Lowe, around 8000kms ago. Makes around double factory power.
Fuel - E85 (it gets into the oil quicksmart. When I was using Delvac, it stank of ethanol. Still smells quite strongly)
Driving conditions - like a madman 30%, sane/legal 50%, cruising 20% + 5hr dyno tune done on this batch.

Test results - Almost no metal particles (5 parts of copper and 8 parts of chrome to 1,000,000 iirc). Viscosity of oil is up 10%, standard for changing oil is 25%, I'll aim to change around 20% to be safe.
In Bill's words - "oil is perfect".

Hoping to get another dyno tune out of this and maybe try and push it to 9000kms and get it retested. For future driving (ie hoping to not need to do dynos that frequently or ever again), hoping to get 10,000km changes out of it. But in the meantime, will wait and see how the oil holds up

Another one to try is NEO Racing Platinum, 40,000km's on E85 without an oil change. Just dropped the filter and topped up the oil lost from filter change every 5000Km's

[Sean82]

What's the idea behind it?

Use the lower ethanol content of the P100 to clean the tank of deposits then install fresh filter for E85?

98 leaves a varnish in the fuel lines, which is actually why ethanol causes so many issues in older cars. The fuel lines in say a 1990 Ford Laser actually has porous fuel lines, the petrol actually seals the fuel into the system. So adding ethanol strips the varnish off the fuel lines, off the fuel tank and then it ends up in the fuel filter and old fuel pump. This is why mechanics loved seeing all these sh!t heaps coming into their workshops with fuel issues after E10 was introduced. Try telling a little old lady that her $0.10 cheaper fuel per litre that she used for a month just cost her $1000 for a full overhaul of new fuel lines(weeping fuel visibly from fuel lines) and her fuel pump, injectors and fuel filter needed to be replaced

By stripping that gunk from the system in the parts your removing, your eliminating contaminants from the system. Cars sitting in garages barely driven, the more varnish accumulates as it is static.

Converting to P100 for a few tanks gets the crap into the old pump and filter. It takes a while for the varnish to discolour the fuel filters but it definitely happens! New filter and pump, all sorted

Thought so, but thanks for the confirmation man

I've just gone straight to the good stuff. I did put a new filter in just a week or two before the engine swap, now I've been on ethanol for about 5,000km, I'll change the fuel filter next service