Gen 5 GT - Bang for Buck Mods / Tune

[Fish Jetski]

Update #2:

Since I bought the car I found out that the previous owner had just about fried the clutch, so when it started to slip (at part throttle in 6th on the highway at 100km/h) I had it replaced with a performance clutch. It is great on the uptake now and off at the lights - but easier to make you look silly too. Full list of mods is now:

MRT Dump pipe (MRT XB Kit)
Ecutek Tune + RACEROM upgrade (Allows flat shifts etc)
S&F NPC custom heavy duty organic clutch
K&N Air Filter
Front Strut brace (Whiteline)
Front Sway Bar (Whiteline)
Anti Lift Kit (Whiteline)
Rear Sway Bar (Whiteline)
Rear End Links (Whiteline)

Just got a new set of Bridgestone RE002's on stock rims. Not considering bigger rims as suspension mods have stiffened up the car enough and I still have to ferry the family around. In fact I am considering taking the Front Strut Brace out as it really jars the car over expansion joints.

Next:

New Brake Pads and braided brake lines
Still considering soft coil overs

[Manaz]

Curious to know why you went for the MRT dump/ECUTEK tune...

[lump_a_charcoal]

Curious to know why you went for the MRT dump/ECUTEK tune...

Also interested.

[Fish Jetski]

Curious to know why you went for the MRT dump/ECUTEK tune...

I had a few reasons:

1. I had some really good results with our MY09 Subaru Forester for same dump/tune combo in 2011 (119kw stock to 155kw after - and great low/mid range)
2. I wanted to go with Mercury Motorsport as they did the Forester and the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don't. Mercury gave me some awesome data analysis and gave me heaps of support in terms of a couple of other issues like my clutch.
3. I made a number of calls to other suppliers (X Force, Turbo XS etc) and they could either not source a dump pipe, or the dump pipe that they had would not fit the Gen V without mods to the stock cat back.
4. I wanted a tried and true solution with 3 separate good tunes for what I wanted
5. I wanted a 'name' solution so that at sale time my Liberty would not lose value due to my mods.

I know you will say I overpaid for MRT (it was about $1.5k over what the same cost in the Forester), but I managed to salary sacrifice the mods so it didn't hurt too much and will hopefully mitigate losses at sale time. The tune is quite good (I do want to go back at some stage to work on it), and the product is guaranteed. Plus Mercury did all the other mods hence it was one drop off and one pick up which made it easy.

Do you think I got a good result (see Dyno) based on the improvement rather than the absolute amount?

[KiDo_Tuning]

Comparing a stock LGT 5EAT, it made 141Kw@wheels and went 173Kw tune only.

Even a 3psi boost increase(to 16.4psi) will see 30Kw gain in a manual without even leaning out the AFR's or modifying timing too much and the dump should see closer to 200Kw.

[bass_straitener]

Comparing a stock LGT 5EAT, it made 141Kw@wheels and went 173Kw tune only.

Even a 3psi boost increase(to 16.4psi) will see 30Kw gain in a manual without even leaning out the AFR's or modifying timing too much and the dump should see closer to 200Kw.

Could we see the dyno graphs for comparison to fish jetski's please.

[bass_straitener]

Do you think I got a good result (see Dyno) based on the improvement rather than the absolute amount?

Looks like a good useable performance improvement. Should make for much nicer cruiser.

[satogixxer]

Comparing a stock LGT 5EAT, it made 141Kw@wheels and went 173Kw tune only.

Even a 3psi boost increase(to 16.4psi) will see 30Kw gain in a manual without even leaning out the AFR's or modifying timing too much and the dump should see closer to 200Kw.

Could we see the dyno graphs for comparison to fish jetski's please.

It sounds reasonable.

The dyno graph in my profile thread could be used as a basis for comparison I guess (although no stock+tune only to compare as never did that). So stock was 149kW. After dump + full exhaust + Insight tune now it is 200kW (I don't think my other mods like CAI or BOV would add much really other than noise).

[bass_straitener]

Comparing a stock LGT 5EAT, it made 141Kw@wheels and went 173Kw tune only.

Even a 3psi boost increase(to 16.4psi) will see 30Kw gain in a manual without even leaning out the AFR's or modifying timing too much and the dump should see closer to 200Kw.

Could we see the dyno graphs for comparison to fish jetski's please.

It sounds reasonable.

The dyno graph in my profile thread could be used as a basis for comparison I guess (although no stock+tune only to compare as never did that). So stock was 149kW. After dump + full exhaust + Insight tune now it is 200kW (I don't think my other mods like CAI or BOV would add much really other than noise).

The OP is running a dump pipe and tune only.

Checked your mods and graphs and you're running a full TBE as well as the up pipe. Also more boost. You also have the racing radiator which in theory would better manage engine coolant temp stability therefore a better result is possible. Both engine coolant temps and intake air temps impact dyno numbers and tuning. I've heard Scott at insight has a great cooling setup in his dyno room too. There's a lot of factors involved.

I want to see an actual Kido tuned car running 16.4 psi and dump pipe only making 200kws on a reasonable dyno like Insights.

[Manaz]

Could we see the dyno graphs for comparison to fish jetski's please.

Dyno graphs aren't comparable across dyno types (chassis vs hub), across dynos of the same type, across operators on the same dyno, or even across days/times with the same operator on the same dyno. Dynos are great as a point-in-time tool, for showing the difference between two states of a car, but not so great for absolute value reporting.

We know that ~200kW is possible on these engines with relatively minor mods and a good tune, I think that's been well established already, regardless of the tuner.

I can't comment on the quality of the tune, or whether it's worth the money paid for it (results per $$$) - if the OP is happy with the result for what he paid, then it's fine in that regard.

My concerns with the ECUTEK tune are that it's locked into the ECU, that (from anecdotal evidence) ECUTEK dealers generally don't tell people about the lock-in nature of their product (I can't comment on Mercury as an individual case), and that you have to pay to have it removed (and I've heard reports of it not being removed properly when the removal service is paid for).

I don't have an issue with the MRT dump, except that I thought it was possible to get exhaust parts with comparable performance to MRT's stuff, without paying the premium price that MRT ask. As the OP stated that he struggled to find alternative parts for the 5Gen, I'd have to trust his judgement here in his individual case.

And in the end, if the OP knows and trusts Mercury (and it seems he does), then there's value in going back to a workshop that's known and trusted, regardless of what tools they use to obtain the results they obtain.

[lump_a_charcoal]

I think any business who locks something YOU own is doing it wrong.
Sure, it is their IP, but regardless, do not lock something you do not own.

As Manaz said, if you are happy with the result, and feel like the price is fair, then that is what's important.

Matt says my car is around 200kWATW now - I am not interested in a dyno to prove it, as I just love driving it.

[Fish Jetski]

Thanks for all the comments guys. I am generally happy with the result...although I wanted more bottom end. A bit more background and info.

FYI, this is the fourth 2.5T Subie I have had a lot to do with (MY08 WRX, MY09 Forester XT, MY09 WRX with VF52 Turbo, and the MY10 Liberty GT). I have driven them all for 6mths+ without a tune and then had them all tuned with either dump pipe or TBE, hence have had a fair bit of 'bum' experience with what I have got out of them. I have had Mercury tune them (mostly good experience), but also sampled a custom tune as well as Chip Torque and am happiest with the Mercury tune. That said, I do not get involved under the hood (other than to check the fluids, light bulbs, and change the tyres). I leave that to others who are much better at it than me, and therefore have to pay a bit more.

I know that ECUTEK locks you into the tune, but unless you are highly experienced in this space, that means that you are not meddling in an area you can stuff up! I understand that in a WRX or Foz, customising is particularly important, but the Liberty is more of a GT (excuse the pun), with a lot more creature comforts and a lot bigger then either the Rex or the Foz. The running gear, small/mid size turbo, extra wheelbase and width, long low gear ratios all contribute to a more smooth less 'wham bam, thank you ma'am' power delivery.

Lastly, I live in QLD - where unless you change the intercooler you pay the price for the weather 9 months of the year with less power. To give you an idea, on a hot day in a stock MY08 WRX I had it dyno'd and it put out 112kw ATW(!!), compared to a winter dyno of 130kw ATW.

I am about 80% happy with the tune in its current state, hence why I queried on the forum. I am actually not chasing 200kw ATW top end - compared to the other cars I have had I actually want the power to come on about 5-800 RPM earlier for more bottom end at 1800-2500RPM!

[bass_straitener]

I am about 80% happy with the tune in its current state, hence why I queried on the forum. I am actually not chasing 200kw ATW top end - compared to the other cars I have had I actually want the power to come on about 5-800 RPM earlier for more bottom end at 1800-2500RPM!

It seems you have a good relationship with Mercury Motorsport so perhaps have a chat with them to see if what they have to say, and if they'd like to have another look at it to achieve your request.

I do know that the Kido tune and Matt put together a tune that feels great on the road and maximises the off boost performance of these cars. A lot of what actual owners want instead of a big number on a piece of paper.

[lump_a_charcoal]

I am about 80% happy with the tune in its current state, hence why I queried on the forum. I am actually not chasing 200kw ATW top end - compared to the other cars I have had I actually want the power to come on about 5-800 RPM earlier for more bottom end at 1800-2500RPM!

It seems you have a good relationship with Mercury Motorsport so perhaps have a chat with them to see if what they have to say, and if they'd like to have another look at it to achieve your request.

I do know that the Kido tune and Matt put together a tune that feels great on the road and maximises the off boost performance of these cars. A lot of what actual owners want instead of a big number on a piece of paper.

And Matt retunes for free.

Hard to go past that.

[<GB>]

200awkw on bare mods and a tune doesn't sound right! Come to Vic and get a dyno run here and it might be less ha ha