MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien - EOI welcome / FS

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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:17 pm

I understand your doubts GB - cos I too have them ;)

I guess we will wait and see. Hopefully its somewhere in the middle

At this stage I would look to resleeving and then reboring it. And with the other parts I mentioned above, it *should* hold 400-420 atw I would say.

The weakness in any ej block in my opinion is the cylinder walls and the load they cop due to a bad angle on the stock crank. My block fixes that with thicker cylinders from factory.

That being said, of course there are other stress points in the engine (pistons, crank, oiling system etc) which can be fixed with some reverse engineering / thinking.

I'm actually going to speak to serge this week or robin from perfourmance Motorsports to see what they can do for a grb ej207 block in the way of sleeving. I'm not a fan of close decking alone, as the close deck cradle only stiffens the top of the block / cylinders. My theory is the stress point in these engines is further down the cylinder, about 2/3 of the way, which is the focal point of the top of the rod at tdc, so at peak torque, the load this spot in the cylinder cops is the most concerning. This is made even worse by the bad rod angle and rod ratio of the 2.5 crank, compared to the 2.0 or 2.2 crank which is alot more conducive to power and revs. So when you combine that with thinner side walls and bad piston to bore clearances, you can see why I don't really like most 2.5 builds.

Therefore if I can strengthen the "already stronger than any 2.5 litre" block, then that would be a positive. Machining would have to be spot on. And I wasn't necessarily having a crack at all machinists in the USA, but more their theory of what works and doesn't. For sure there will be guys there that know their shit, but most of them don't post their secrets on the Internet I would say ;) but that's just a hunch

We've now moved beyond discussing the inadequacy of stock piston materials (such as the stock ej205/255/257 pistons). Instead I'm calling out the positioning of the crown, the ringlands position respective to the top of the piston, the piston skirting length and thickness, the gudgeon pin location and its effect on piston inertia at higher revs/ load, and the design and strength of the cylinder within which this piston sits.

Then you have the rod itself - the length and design is better than the equivalent 2.5 rod. But I would be getting custom rods to suit the rod ratio I wanted, and they would be better than or at least equal to the pauter I beam rods material.

The crank I've covered already. Same with headstuds and headwork.

If I do this build, I will have addressed these things one by one - and I would like to think I would be pretty close when it comes to the weak points in the stock design, but of course only time will tell.

Mick
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby <GB> » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:00 pm

sleeving with closed deck... best of both worlds
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby kiahatsiu » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:53 pm

dr20t wrote: you can see why I don't really like most 2.5 builds.

Mick

There have been a few big dollar 2.5s not work so well lately. My plan is to buy another spare.
In this built v10 motor, I presume you would need to go to town on the heads. What turbo would you run? Something like a 3576 with a loose exhaust housing, aim to get some usable pressure at like 4.5k and hold it to 9.5k?
Thinking logically about this, you would be wayyy out of the compressor's effiencey range there. Need something like a 3588, which, as far as I know, doesn't exist.
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:38 pm

6266 or 6466 - at a PR of 3.6 either of those would be right in their efficiency range. The 6466 wouldn't make full boost til 5500 rpm though I reckon. Which would suck. The 6266 would be best and even then would be a little laggy by most people's standards. This will make 400kw easy on e85. Hands down.

Just need to keep it from surge at lower boost which would need some trickery with maybe a 1.5 scroll setup to ensure its nice and flows down low but not to the point that it surges on low boost (low here being 15-20 psi given it will be running 36-38psi)

Haven't seen a compressor map for one of these (don't think they exist) but if you base it loosely on a 3582r and 4088, then it would be pretty close to surge at pressure ratio of 2.0. So would need to get off 14-16psi VERY quickly!

Mick
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby kiahatsiu » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Quick question re AVCS. Does this contraption get the full AVCS range using the V10 spec C cam gears and the stock ecu, or are limited to 40 and 25 (or what ever the stock AVCS range was)?
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby <GB> » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:07 pm

it sucks how most turbo manufacturers don't offer a compressor map
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Full avcs - 45 degrees inlet, 40 degrees exhaust ;)
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby bigBADbenny » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 pm

At this level of debauchery I'd be investing in per cyl cht and per runner egt & afr.

Have you looked into "T sleeves" ?
Eg: http://www.aebsracing.com/products/t-sleeves

The T refers to the shape giving a reinforced deck integrated with sleeving.
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:43 pm

Haha debauchery - I haven't heard that since school :lol:

Never heard of t sleeves. Will have a look into them thanks Benny
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby Deep Heat » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:45 pm

You went to school?
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:46 pm

Deep Heat wrote:You went to school?


I can see how you're surprised seeing as I'm always schooling you :evil:
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:55 pm

dr20t wrote:Full avcs - 45 degrees inlet, 40 degrees exhaust ;)


52 is the inlet maximum actually ;) Although not advisable as it can induce knock from the cam gear stoppers
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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby <GB> » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:39 pm

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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby alexeiwoody » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:04 pm

<GB> wrote:Be different and try this lol

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0948/article.html

:lol:


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Re: MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien

Postby dr20t » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:30 pm

Started playing with my anti-lag setup today.

Not quite perfect but getting there. I'm now building 5psi on the brake as opposed to 0.75 previously.

Once fully operational it should allow me to launch at 12-14psi. All I will say is watch this space for updated 0-100 times once this is done. Bugatti Veyron territory launches here we come ;)
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