Do you need a re-tune when changing TMIC??

[peadya100]

Do i need a re-tune when changing top mounts? I know changing to a front mount requires one, but thought if im simply changing the top mount it shouldnt effect the amount of air going through???..... but then i really dont know

[cruisn]

No.

[Manaz]

"It depends". Tuners tend to recommend a retune when you make significant changes to how the engine breathes (either intake or exhaust). The general reason for changing TMICs is for an intake improvement of some kind. If the improvement is significant, you'd perhaps find that a retune would help. Talk to your tuner.

I have been considering a Process West TMIC for my car when I go to the VF52 (that said, one tuner has recommended that putting a bigger TMIC on top just gives me a bigger heatsink to deal with and thus not to bother, though I'm going to ask if his advice is the same if I also use an intercooler spray with some intelligence behind it), and that would almost certainly require a retune, as it is a significant change to the intake side of the engine.

[peadya100]

"It depends". Tuners tend to recommend a retune when you make significant changes to how the engine breathes (either intake or exhaust). The general reason for changing TMICs is for an intake improvement of some kind. If the improvement is significant, you'd perhaps find that a retune would help. Talk to your tuner.

I have been considering a Process West TMIC for my car when I go to the VF52 (that said, one tuner has recommended that putting a bigger TMIC on top just gives me a bigger heatsink to deal with and thus not to bother, though I'm going to ask if his advice is the same if I also use an intercooler spray with some intelligence behind it), and that would almost certainly require a retune, as it is a significant change to the intake side of the engine.

Doesn't a different TMIC just improve the cooling of the air? I wouldn't have thought it would change the amount of air going in. Ill ask michael what he thinks I should do.

If youre still talking to MSR which I assume you are as he says that same thing about bigger top mounts taking longer too cool down as theyre heavier, he is with you on the water spray set ups. He has it on his rally car too. Im thinking its the way ill go, but I probably won't do it if he recommends a retune.. way too expensive an exercise just for a new cooler

[Manaz]

Doesn't a different TMIC just improve the cooling of the air? I wouldn't have thought it would change the amount of air going in. Ill ask michael what he thinks I should do.

If youre still talking to MSR which I assume you are as he says that same thing about bigger top mounts taking longer too cool down as theyre heavier, he is with you on the water spray set ups. He has it on his rally car too. Im thinking its the way ill go, but I probably won't do it if he recommends a retune.. way too expensive an exercise just for a new cooler

Different designs also have different properties - some flow better (give less pressure drop) than others, etc.

Mick also does custom-built WAICs...

[KiDo_Tuning]

Ideally you need a retune in case it was tuned with a small boost leak on old TMIC(seen it happen) and then new TMIC has tighter clamps etc and it ends up running leaner

[peadya100]

Thanks matt! That settles it then, no intercooler for a while. Ill wait until I have a few other mods that also need a retune.

Ive seen michaels water to air coolers. He said they were not something youd put on a street car like mine. More for big HP cars. Ill just save the cooler for when I do pump and injectors. They will definitely require a retune

[shav]

Sounds like you made the right decision for now Adam. I have heard the same thing with an aftermarket TMIC too from mates who have had their cars tuned with SnJ here in SA. Great for increasing overall power, but if you have heat soak, it can be a bit of an issue in peak hour traffic. Have seen some threads on here about the water spray controllers too. My guess is, if you were to go a bigger TMIC, invest on a water spray kit at the same time too to make sure heat soak isnt a concern. Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone. More power, and no heat soak = boost time fun

Alternatively, a WS kit on a stock IC has some benefits too. Not in tuning for overall power, but in maintaining your maximum tuned power regardless of weather/traffic conditions. I am considering this approach with a large capacity water container in conjunction with a decent exhaust system and retune.

[peadya100]

Sounds like you made the right decision for now Adam. I have heard the same thing with an aftermarket TMIC too from mates who have had their cars tuned with SnJ here in SA. Great for increasing overall power, but if you have heat soak, it can be a bit of an issue in peak hour traffic. Have seen some threads on here about the water spray controllers too. My guess is, if you were to go a bigger TMIC, invest on a water spray kit at the same time too to make sure heat soak isnt a concern. Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone. More power, and no heat soak = boost time fun

Alternatively, a WS kit on a stock IC has some benefits too. Not in tuning for overall power, but in maintaining your maximum tuned power regardless of weather/traffic conditions. I am considering this approach with a large capacity water container in conjunction with a decent exhaust system and retune.

Yeah thats what msr recommends.. water spray on stock cooler. But after seeing how much it is to set up a system like that im hesitant. But it will probably happen one day haha

[shav]

yeah I know what you mean. I properly setup system which is programmable and not wasteful on water is not cheap. On a street setup though, I would say a quality aftermarket TMIC is sufficient for a few traffic light bursts. It comes down to how much you wanna pay.

My mate has a MY09 Foz XT with an SnJ tuned TMIC and TBE exhaust setup, and he swears by his improved drive ability and lack of heat soak. He said even on the hottest days in traffic he hasnt felt any difference in power drop or extended lag. Then again he is running 170kw atw behind an auto. So I dont know.

[Robbks]

sit in the sun for 5 mins on a 30' day in the staging lanes at the drags and see how good the TMIC is.
80+ deg IAT's are not good for getting off the line.
Had an FMIC been fitted, the fans would keep them at abmient

[shav]

sit in the sun for 5 mins on a 30' day in the staging lanes at the drags and see how good the TMIC is.
80+ deg IAT's are not good for getting off the line.
Had an FMIC been fitted, the fans would keep them at abmient

fair call. In saying that, neither myself or my mate use our cars for drag meets. But I hear what your saying. A FMIC is far more efficient when it comes to heat soak.

[peadya100]

Very true shav. Cant see myself dragging my car or even tracking it. But I get the what youre saying rob.
That raises a good point though, everyone thats saying upgraded top mounts arent as good if youre in traffic, are you assuming ive been driving the car hard in traffic? Or is that still an issue with normal driving?

[Robbks]

just normal driving,
no airflow through the core to cool it,
so the hot air rises up through it to escape out the scoop when you're not moving or only moving slowly
especially on the liberties with tiny little scoops too.

You can combat the heat soak a little by keeping the throttle open a bit (say 1000-1200rpm)
this draws in cooler intake air and actually helps cool the TMIC from the inside.
I logged all this data on my legacy at the last drag day i took it to. After the first couple of runs of being very sluggish off the line, I'd wait till I was about the 2nd set of cars ready to line up and hold the throttle open at around 1500rpm and would see intake temps drop to around 20' above ambient. previously they were sitting around 40-50' higher