How safe is it to modify an unopened engine?

[senator]

I know of at least three 2.5t unopened Libs modified by Garage 88 rolling around as daily drivers putting out 240kw+ on 98, like mentioned before it’s a combination of the right parts tuned to work safely.

These cars have been around for at least 4-5 years now.

[coyote]

Thought I posted in here yesterday, but accidentally PMd Bruce instead. Need more sleep.

...


Yes and no.

Standard cars can be diabolical. There's things in every factory tune that we change to actually increase the safety margins. There are parts that will do the same thing.

We get very little extra power out of 06 STis, but they roll out much, MUCH safer cars than they roll in. Same goes for many other models.

The BRZ/86 is another. They are doing engines over in Germany being used as 'Ring taxis, but we fix the problem when we tune them.

Every Subaru since 2007 knocks because it holds onto closed loop too long. We've been fixing that for years too. Of course it's there for emissions, but there's nothing environmentally friendly about replacing an engine every few years.

Biggest thing is not to stress the car. Leave a bit on the table and they go for ages.

I've been modifying unopened EJs and now FAs for 19 years now. I've not had a single one let go, but there's an MY04 wagon that is way overdue.

[Manaz]

Use a bigger turbo and better intercooler
Less boost, more ignition timing.

How much boost are you running now?

A VF52 is similar in size to a stock TD05-16G that's been around for ever. Great turbo on a 2.0 but the front half just isn;t big enough for a 2.5.

I forget what the size differences are in the new VF turbo's
But for a 2.5 you want something bigger, similar to a a TD05-20G.

The good ting about the TD05 is it has a generous sized exhaust housing, less back pressure, less heat built up, means you get better flow and can run more ignition timing for more power
which is also better for economy and engine safety

have a read of the comparisons here
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-l ... -dom3.html

The VF46 is the standard turbo on the 2.5T in the 4Gen Liberty - they top out at around 180-190kw ATW with supporting mods, but you're pushing them pretty hard at that point. The VF52 is a bolt-on upgrade (it's the stock turbo on the 2009 and later WRX), and good for over 200kW at the wheels.

How safe an upgrade is depends on what the supporting mods are, and how good your tuner is. A good tuner can actually get more power out of a stock engine AND do it in a safer manner than the stock engine/tune. People often carry on that "the manufacturer knows best" - sure, they probably do - but like almost *everything* in life, what they do is a compromise based on factors they deem to be important, and they absolutely know the risks they're taking versus the other factors involved. And where a good tuner can help do a better job is that your priorities are almost certainly different to those of Subaru themselves, and thus their tune will suit your needs, and not Subaru's.

[bigBADbenny]

BBB thanks you for this post!

holds onto closed loop too long

I'll be checking my Torqued Performance tune to see if Eric has already mitigated this issue in his tune strategy, which for my car already seems biased towards being low stress with good response (as requested).

Yes and no.

Standard cars can be diabolical. There's things in every factory tune that we change to actually increase the safety margins. There are parts that will do the same thing.

We get very little extra power out of 06 STis, but they roll out much, MUCH safer cars than they roll in. Same goes for many other models.

The BRZ/86 is another. They are doing engines over in Germany being used as 'Ring taxis, but we fix the problem when we tune them.

Every Subaru since 2007 knocks because it holds onto closed loop too long. We've been fixing that for years too. Of course it's there for emissions, but there's nothing environmentally friendly about replacing an engine every few years.

Biggest thing is not to stress the car. Leave a bit on the table and they go for ages.

I've been modifying unopened EJs and now FAs for 19 years now. I've not had a single one let go, but there's an MY04 wagon that is way overdue.

[peadya100]

Thanks for all the responses guys.. it has definitely put me at ease now.. i was seriously considering selling my new VF52 for a while there

[chubbs]

oh you can still sell it...... sell it to me

[peadya100]

oh you can still sell it...... sell it to me

Haha deal!! $3000

[Manaz]

oh you can still sell it...... sell it to me

Haha deal!! $3000

I'll sell mine for $2500!

[coyote]

BBB thanks you for this post!

holds onto closed loop too long

I'll be checking my Torqued Performance tune to see if Eric has already mitigated this issue in his tune strategy, which for my car already seems biased towards being low stress with good response (as requested).

I think you can be pretty sure of it as it's very well known and documented.

I don't talk about the things we do that we don't think the others have worked out

[bigBADbenny]

Aye, respect for you talking at all.
After a quick Google I see the issue plainly.

[kiahatsiu]

...... but there's an MY04 wagon that is way overdue.

Without speculating who this might be, I would like to point out that mine is an MY05.

[dr20t]

...... but there's an MY04 wagon that is way overdue.

Without speculating who this might be, I would like to point out that mine is an MY05.

Narcissist...

[coyote]

...... but there's an MY04 wagon that is way overdue.

Without speculating who this might be, I would like to point out that mine is an MY05.

Shit, I dropped the wrong map on it.




Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[bigBADbenny]

I know of at least three 2.5t unopened Libs modified by Garage 88 rolling around as daily drivers putting out 240kw+ on 98, like mentioned before it’s a combination of the right parts tuned to work safely.

These cars have been around for at least 4-5 years now.

With utmost respect, this is the second time this claim has been made on this forum.
I would like to see some sort of proof, model years, a parts and tune strategy or at least a link to the vehicles being referred to.

I cant remember anyone here even getting close, for any amount of time.
I have no major issue with the statement, but Libs arent exactly like Nissans, where a few well planned and spent grands can net 300 atw.
I think it gives false hope to all the n00bs is all.

Furthermore I wish it to be possible, I'm trying to build a base to safely get maybe 4/5th's of the way there...

[peadya100]

I have to agree with BBB... it may very well be true that some libs have made it to 240wkw on 98, and seeing as how this forum is a community that helps each other out, it would be awesome to know what mods they have made to achieve that. Throw a dog a bone