My H6 transformed

[Kekotic]

Ric can we just rename this thread Alexei is angry? Thanks.

drunk mode deactivated

[alexeiwoody]

For all your brilliant logging software you still don't know why my car is knocking. You talk about all these logging techniques yet you didn't answer my question - 2/3 pulls we did for 2 first tunes - is that enough time to log all your brilliant parameters? Not a 100%. But that's good enough since some other tuners are even worse.

Youre adamant it's wastegate chatter but you got shut down hard on rom raider forums for that theory. In the end the guy's knock sensor was faulty. I know because I pmed him.

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopi ... 62&start=0

Link to god of tuning gets shut down. And turns out he's wrong too.

So you had the last revision on your laptop, I smsed you the next day, then emailed you then posted here in the learning view thread - where you were replying to posts!!! A week after that is when you finally sent me the file. My iam dropped to 0, yet you had time to make forum posts. And no apologies - just excuses. It's fine if you're too busy to look after a customer - but that's not good enough for me. Pretty logical choice I thought.

Matt you've said the dyno confirmed the issue. So are you saying you weren't already 100% certain from your amazing logging software? Road tune sounds like a lot of estimates and guesswork filtered through your experience. Still too much room for error. And humidity shouldn't have to be altered for. I thought you gave me a safe tune?

You say extreme summer temperatures cant be predicted - uh it was before mid December in Melbourne. Average temps were below 28...seriously why not just tune for 40 degrees? Should we all be worried now since you couldn't predict the weather pattern this year?

Kieran - im not angry - I try to only post real events and facts without bias. So someone esle can benefit from my experience. Is that wrong or selfish? I've seen a number of people with the same issues now - but they don't speak up. Matt I liked you as a tuner - it's that you keep giving excuses instead of acknowledging any fault so far. Changing your approach slightly, like adding a pre tune check list - might help look after your customers better. Why even bother arguing against that. You just look silly now.

[KiDo_Tuning]

Next was Throttehappy/Kido Tune. I had read many of Matt's posts on Romraider and when I found out he was tuning I jumped onboard, very soon after Ain. I started tuning with Matt in early July last year. It's common knowledge how that turned out, but to summarise: I had constant boost spikes upto 23-24psi, both FBKC and FLKC events in logs and when I'd compare revisions the changes were random to say the least and induced other problems like stuttering etc. I ended my relationship with Matt after a poor dyno tune which saw my car IAM drop significantly a week later, followed by no communication. 7 days later Matt responded with a revision which saw 24 tables changed including things he'd previously told me he'd nailed in the tune. I sought advice from a friend who advised the changes showed a he didn't really know what was going on and was just trying things.

Might I add here, that for 4 months we diagnosed mechanical issues and with a clear alteration needed to a known good MAF scaling, that the tune with an appropriate wideband MAF sensor log would have benefited greatly? Exhaust tip AFR's are less than ideal considering it is widely known that a catalytic converter alters AFR's as chemical byproduct and can also be influenced by exhaust gasket leaks
What was changed? I was not 'trying things' but focusing on the logs I had taken during the dyno. I recently did a Cobb+VF52+ID1000's 5EAT in the USA with wideband data, AFR's spot on by 3rd revision, tune finished by the 5th getting just short of 500 miles per tank. You can imagine my frustration knowing how easy it was to resolve had WB data been available. The dyno logs all started at around 100g/sec which gives minimal chance to scale in spool which is what causes stuttering despite a smooth blend in for OL fueling.


I then had a brief stint with Eric from Torqued Performance but after nearly 6 months logging almost daily I was over it and really didn't give him much of a chance.

I'm now tuned with MSR and for me his tune has been spot on. No jerkiness or stutter on boost, no boost spikes, great fuel consumption etc. In the one day the car spent with him all of this was achieved and he even diagnosed my cam gear issues. I've logged it since and it's always been spot on.

Since I'd been posting about my experience with regards to Matt I've received numerous, upto 25 PMs, some days from people requesting I just have a look at their tune. For the most part I refer them back to their tuner, but agree to take a Learning View screenshot to give them a general feeling on how things are going or a log to check their boost and boost management. At it's peak I was checking 4 cars per week to put owners minds at ease.

Wengs car for example, the base tune that was loaded was stock with just a DBW fix applied, so despite an IAM drop, it was still better than its stock IAM! Since tuning in person, it is at 1.000. I have myself referred car owners back to their tuner in many cases after looking at LV... 90% of dyno tuned cars have FLKC in LV Every tuned car should get a regular health check

It is a shame I've ended up in this situation as that wasn't the intention. But the fact is most of Matt's clients don't believe his wild tales. He tells people they're making 240kws but when dynoed they make less than 200kws. Pinging cars are sent on their way telling them it's valve train noise or timing chain slap. And cars that are hitting boost cut due to spiking are having CELs turned off, apparently to save the client inconvenience and money. I saw a post on Ozfoz this week where he's suggested a boost spike on a Canberra tuned car is due to Canberra being below sea level and that hadn't been catered for. WTF? Stuff like this does get me riled. I can't fathom how someone would believe stuff like this.

Bruce, the H6 engine is a noisey motor... IAM's of under 0.25 in stock form are the norm because the valvetrain of a chain system IS noisey. More crank torque applied causes more chain tension just like a fat kid riding a push bike and lifting his bum off the seat then inducing chain sprocket noise.
Boost cut interupt without the CEL is better than boost cut being set above 22psi which is common, atleast there is an interupt to the power without causing Limp Mode rather than hitting 22psi and possibly causing engine damage.
Yes Bruce, Canberra is ABOVE sea level and the altitude affects boost pressure... since Target Boost Pressure and Boost cut is relative to atmospheric presure. Maybe you should ask a few people who have tuned cars for Summernats Horsepower Heroes entrants? We know how you need an extra psi or 2 to match sea level and well no prize for guessing why boost cut was not an issue when originally tuned. Sure, the issue turned out to be the heat shield fouling the actuator but my tune was perfectly fine in Canberra.

It also seems actual owners don't seem to post honestly about their experiences with Matt but instead PM me their stories of disappointment. Mildly modded cars with not much more than a dump pipe and HKS panel filter are boost spiking and running ridiculously rich 17l/100kms. 27,000km H6 car owner being told they have faulty O2 sensors. Where does it all end?

Contrary to Subaru's parts staff knowledge, the easy way to tell an O2 sensor is dying from oxygen contamination with low km's is to log the Heater Circuit. Not being hot for long enough due to low Km short drives damages the electrode and the heater circuit has to draw more power to keep it warm from all the soot insulating it. An O2 sensor which is heated every day or 5x a week has a longer service life than one which is warmed up once a month and then left to oxide for the the rest of the lunar calendar.

I don't claim to be the be all and end all of tuning and also don't touch people's cars as I don't have the insurances to cover me for any damage. I state that whenever I meet people or touch their cars. But when a tuned cars have an IAM of .53 after 3 months driving. You'd have to question the tuners ability.

Matt has put himself up as the answer to tuning, being critical of just about every tuner, yet seems to find it difficult to take criticism himself. And it seems his customers either just stop tuning with him when issues arise and never comment on their disappointment. I know of at least 15 people whose cars went backwards tuning with Matt.

Usually critical from an IT perspective or tuning a CAI by rescaling the injector size and tweaking OL fueling until it runs, until the D range makes it run super lean on boost! It goes in both directions Bruce with all tuners both locally and internationally, although I am still keen to find out who these 15 people are. No mention of who these USA 5EAT tunes with gearbox shifting problems are though?

Anyone who knows me in person, I reckon can attest to me being a pretty easy going guy. But I'm not going to shy away from reporting things honestly even if others chose quietly slip into the night.

[Tradewind]

The thread title states "My H6 transformed" - pretty obvious

I run the KiDo tune in my personal vehicle for the past few months - and yes transformed in all the right ways. No complaint from me at all, KiDo/Matt did the right thing by my car - no argument about that.

He is near enough to H6 master ..........

[alexeiwoody]

Hey tim, do you log your car? And have you tuned with any other tuners?

Cheers

[Tradewind]

Yes and yes



Logs when taken are forwarded to tuner for interpretation and subsequent tune update/s

[<GB>]

Yes and yes



Logs when taken are forwarded to tuner for interpretation and subsequent tune update/s

sounds like he tuned yours good for the advertising

[Tradewind]

As a customer of KiDo all I can say is I have been supplied with 2 ROMs, I am very happy with the result so far - there isnt anything negative to say since the car is working perfectly. Mind you, I'm not about to invent something to make myself popular or accepted here, only how it is. If anyone is local to me and want to check my car out on this score, feel free to PM me

As an H6 owner I just added my experience of the product that the thread was titled about - no more and no less.

[Robbks]

Mind you, I'm not about to invent something to make myself popular or accepted here, only how it is. .

And not something that would be a smart business move to risk your credibility given the products you've been developing for our cars....

[<GB>]

As a customer of KiDo all I can say is I have been supplied with 2 ROMs,
As an H6 owner I just added my experience of the product that the thread was titled about - no more and no less.

you said near enough to h6 master which i think is up for debate

[Tradewind]

I wonder if there shouldnt be 2 separate threads re this tuning

I believe the H6 NA tuning is a more simple task and hence something far easier for a tuner/s to get right. More likely to get favourable comment.

The H4 turbo tuning, well the variables increase massively and really require the tuner/s to be paying attention - I have no problem believing issues could arise with tuning turbo engines due to the increased variables and in turn issues to arise. More chances for unfavourable comment

I havent read back the last few pages at all but I will take a guess based on my hypothesis that the bulk of unhappy persons would be H4 turbo owners? No?

[jay.ritchie]

I havent read back the last few pages at all but I will take a guess based on my hypothesis that the bulk of unhappy persons would be H4 turbo owners? No?

Pretty much

[Robbks]

I havent read back the last few pages at all but I will take a guess based on my hypothesis that the bulk of unhappy persons would be H4 turbo owners? No?

Pretty much

No, there's only been one owner complain (alexeigrumpy... sorry....! )
the rest all came from a third party member who checks other members' tunes and points out the flaws in Matt's tunes.

Below are all the customers who have posted in this thread,
at least alexei has posted that he's not happy, yet to see the masses or other unhappy campers appear..?

I'll keep saying it
I have no involvement and I haven't had a tune from Matt either,
It's just logistically complicated living in Hobart, otherwise i'd have given it a shot, and i'm short on cash.
but from all the first hand reports I can see from H6 owners in this community, there's no real problem.

A local member who knows his sh!t well had a couple of niggling issues, unsure of the outcome, but it's interesting to hear his thoughts about the process.

I had a street tune from Matt (KiDo) a week ago and am very impressed with the results.
I initially didn't want to believe the hype. But I was so fed up with the doughy throttle and excessive fuel consumption that I thought, what the heck...
So I asked for a street tune because I wanted more torque earlier, a more responsive but smooth throttle, and no more DBW lag -- and Matt delivered on all that, and then some.
It feels like the torque that came in at 3,000 rpm now comes in just above 2,000. And then it keeps on wanting to rev all the way to redline. In 5th gear it pulls like the old 3rd gear. Nothing manic mind you, just a meaty wave of sustained torque that propels you along.

And there are some fine points to the tune as well. The throttle has that nice direct precise feeling almost as if it was connected with a cable. The idle is rock steady at 800 rpm and compensates nicely for the a/c. The cruise control was somehow recalibrated so that it's now practically imperceptible when it switches on/off to maintain your set speed. There's a bit more engine brake. And it's easier to downshift into a lower gear as the revs fall more quickly when you're off throttle which allows the syncros to mesh better. Matt also set the cooling fan to come on a bit earlier to maintain a cooler engine.

And here's the kicker - my fuel use has dropped down to 10L/100kms on a combo of spirited driving, stop/start suburbs and freeway. Pre tune that would have cost easily cost me 12.5L/100km. That's measured at the bowser the old fashioned way. Same bowser, same fuel, etc.

A big thanks to Matt for giving me the H6 I always wanted!

Had mine done on Sunday and results have been incredible. Agree with everything said by OP, it completely transforms the car.
Downside is it developed some ping come Tuesday night, and luckily Matt was still in town so I got him to check it out. Turns out one of the AFR sensors is borked and wreaking havoc on the closed loop tune. So we put it back to a conservative tune until my new sensors come in, then it's back to super happy fun times

EVERY H6 owner should be having their vehicle retuned

Every comment here is as I have found the engine to be after retuning, and in every case so long as KiDo or XRT do it you will always be impressed from what i have seen and experienced so far. I am sure there are some shops that can do it but we dont hear about them much on here.

You have a H6, get it retuned for pure enjoyment and have the car feeling as you believe it should - SIMPLE

I had mine tuned by Matt on Saturday in Perth. I can't remember what kind of tune or PSI he got it to... I'll let him explain that part.

All i know is it was BLOODY good. Whether the ej or h6 - it's definitely worth doing

Slick gear shifts and lots of torque, nice to drive. Will be driving in peak traffic on Wednesday so I'll have a good idea of how she drives in a jam then

And the enjoyment factor is so high after the tune, I find it difficult not to use the right foot! With some AVCS tuning as well, I have a brilliant sound from my HiTech quads when I open the throttle.

SubMeister, I cannot believe you thought Kido Tunes were hype? Several of us have had 1st hand experience and all quite impressed by the results so there was very little risk for you or anyone else to follow. Definitely the best Bang for Buck in my opinion.

At least, now you're a believer!!!

OMG.... Tune done today and it certainly has released the beast.... It's the strangest sensation, I'm sitting in the same seat, with my hands on the same steering wheel but when you plant that right foot...

My was pinging and a touch jolty.

But that was the base tune. Matt sorted it all out and its so much better. 180kw to 210kw is a very welcomed improvement.

Most noticeable would be:
taking off without any bog down. Very quick and smooth.
3rd gear pulls like 2nd gear.
6th gear pulls from 1500rpm.
Great fuel economy.

Mine's good. Thanks for asking.

So is mine

I love the way the car drives, and it'd be a shame to have it returned to stock.
Just for piece of mind i'm going to take it to a specialist to have it looked over. If they say the engine is in ship shape- i'll be happy.
If they tell me something is not 100%, (due to the tune), i guess i'll have to consider my options.

Pretty sure I have posted elsewhere that I am very happy with the tune and the tuner.

I'll be honest about my tune I had done by Matt last Friday. I'm satisfied with it. It has improved the car for sure. It pulls harder, especially noticeable below 3000rpm. He was very helpful too and explained everything I asked him. I have however not seen any difference with fuel economy (I've only driven about 150kms though), which could be a good thing since running too lean isn't good from what I've read. I should also add that the fuel I had during the tune is different to the one I'm using now (Caltex vs Shell) so possibly that could be the reason for no change in fuel economy.

It's unfortunate to hear that there have been unsatisfied customers. From what I've seen and heard, I thought that these tunes were always top quality. It's difficult to say who is right or wrong though.

I've also heard noises that I thought was pinging and let Matt know. He did say it was likely to be the timing chain tensioner, which makes sense since the sound was only detectable for about half a second when going off and back on throttle sharply, irrelevant of rpm.

Overall, I think the tune is good, as is the tuner. I'd recommend it to anyone with a H6

[<GB>]

I havent read back the last few pages at all but I will take a guess based on my hypothesis that the bulk of unhappy persons would be H4 turbo owners? No?

Pretty much

there have been other h6's but they need to grow balls and give feed back....

[bass_straitener]

Interesting Robb that you've extracted all the comments of people who've proclaimed their satisfaction with their Kido tune.

Some of these very same members have PMed me advising me that they think their cars are either pinging or they've got unexplained noises since the tune. Most complaints have been during hot weather only.

One member has even gone back to stock to test Matt's theory that he had timing chain slap or tensioner pulley noise or O2 sensors needed replacement. Since going back to stock he's less happy with the stock tune but all noises have stopped. The pinging has stopped and he car rev the car out instead of hearing what he described as a "sickening noise" . I've logged both O2 sensor voltages and they are within 3% of each other.

I've not gone seeking out these people to prove a point, promote myself or any vendetta against Matt. In fact, somewhat unwittingly, I've become labelled a bit of a Kido tune hater. A bit sad really.

But when Learning Views look like the two pics attached and the owners go back to Matt to receive a response they can't understand, unfortunately they PM me. I could be like a few other guys with knowledge and simply refer them back to their tuner but instead I try and explain what's being said. And when subsequent revisions don't fix the pinging well I'd hardly call the individual a "H6 master"