My H6 transformed

[<GB>]

Fair enough he is taking his time to look at others tunes but as rob said what makes Bruce's judgement so special. Not picking an argument here I'd just like to know Bruce's background.

Like i said after a while he has learned lots, its also easy to read the LV if the car is knocking then you know there is an issue.

lots of tuners are ex mechanics that are good with computers and numbers..

[Robbks]

are you being a smart ass asking if he has those qualifications?

Nope.
Just wondering where his experience comes from.
Has he worked as a developer/ tuner/ tester for major players in the industry?

I've done my own tuning on basic ECU's (PowerFC, various Haltech's, Link) and it's all self-taught from gathering information and asking questions of guys who have helped tune my cars and that work for those companies.
I have advised and helped other local members tweak tunes or go back to their tuner and ask questions, this has resulted in further clarification and knowledge for myself as to why they set something up like they did, and also a call of thanks from one local tuner for pointing out what he had missed and he happily made the adjustments to the car in question and offered some free workshop time to the owner.
I've also seen some of the slack work done by a number of highly rated tuners (3 of the ones mentioned a few posts above and a few more not mentioned) but i'm not going to bag-out one or a number of tuners because of it, they all have their own styles and methods of making power, some better than others (in my opinion only).

I've seen the same internet whinging about all the tuners, MSR, Pulse, MRT, Matt, Springy, etc and how they have destroyed peoples cars, blah blah.
Some people have good experiences, some don't

regardless of the quality of the tune, The good thing I see from what Matt is doing is allowing the customer the ability and opportunity to return to stock or modify their tune as they wish.
Try getting ECUwreck out of your ECU...

Like i said after a while he has learned lots, its also easy to read the LV if the car is knocking then you know there is an issue.

Whoever was in charge of ECU programming at Subaru in 2006 was a f**king retard
my car pings it head off at 1500rpm in 6th gear if you stab the throttle, I don't even need LV to pick that

[<GB>]

when you start seeing lots of issues from one tuner and those tunes not being consistant and hit and miss then you have to ask why. i know my tunes not the best but at least its safe...

[Robbks]

when you start seeing lots of issues from one tuner and those tunes not being consistant and hit and miss then you have to ask why. i know my tunes not the best but at least its safe...

Definitely,
I've recently seen a LOT of local guys (mostly WRX owners with no clue) that have been having issues with their tunes.
So they blame the tuner, blame the workshop and anyone else.
They fail to tell you up front that they have since completely changed the CAI and filter setup, swapped exhaust bits and plugged up the engine breathers or running a chaep china atmo-BOV and forgot to plug up the return hose properly.
One recent incident on OzFoz was the "Pulse Racing Mad" thread.
Pulse tuned his car and it was fine for a month, then "the tune" suddenly to sh!t and found that the MAF had died.
6 pages of ranting later, the consensus was to deal with it, a car with 160K km's on it is likely to have a MAF fail.

I'm not saying anyones tunes are perfect, and unless the workshop/ tuner in question is asked to perform a complete 300 point service and check on everything on the car and test every sensor, then the tuner can only tune and get feedback from the car as it stands on the day.
Customer brings in a car with dirty filters and injectors, tuner tunes it as it is.
Next week the owner has the injectors cleaned and new filters, suddenly it's bogging down and running rich.... they blame the tune and the tuner every time.

[bass_straitener]

Fair enough he is taking his time to look at others tunes but as rob said what makes Bruce's judgement so special. Not picking an argument here I'd just like to know Bruce's background.

Fair question Tom.

Basically I'm just a guy who's played with cars for 22 years as a hobby. Firstly Alfa's and Fiats, then V8s (Ford and Holden), following that I had a stint tuning and modding with my 240z and 260z.

These were all carby cars so much easier to tune and mod.

At the moment I work setting up secure connectivity between IT systems for data transfer with guaranteed delivery. Systems I work on are Mainframe, Unix, Wintel, AS400 generally on high availability systems for online traffic 24/7. I've been doing this for 14 years. The pays OK and with 4 kids I've not had much time to devote to anything too extreme car wise. What it does show is that I understand how computers work, relationships between tables and understand logic control statements which can all be transposed to an ECU and what's trying to be achieved by a computer to manage a mechanical component. I've also have an electrical engineering qualification a software engineering qualification and accreditation by IBM in quite a few of their products. It's not a brag and I don't mention it normally as it simply stereotypes me as a super nerd. I've mentioned it here to help with setting context about my knowledge base.

With regards to Subaru's I first bought a Forester in 2004 and the Liberty in 2011. Initially I kept it stock but after the first 6 months I started modding it. I'm a bit of a perfectionist in most things I do, a trait which can be both a positive and negative.

Experience with tuning has stemmed only from spending hours speaking to the right people, gaining knowledge from tuners both from Australia, and around the world. Looking and reading various tuning centric sites and and dissecting tunes to understand the Subaru ECU logic and relationships between the tables. I've done this now for 12 months.

I initially I had my car tuned by Revzone but after fully understanding the Subaru knock control strategy, I determined my tune had it disabled. A common issue with tuners who specialise in after market ECU tuning where knock control strategy is not complex or well catered for. Therefore these tuners disable most of it. I wasn't a fan and moved on. Revzone does do excellent mechanical installs though based on the work on my car.

I then moved onto Springy. A basic tune which produced good top end power but lacked driveability. It was pretty much on/off and difficult to drive in peak hour traffic.

Next was Throttehappy/Kido Tune. I had read many of Matt's posts on Romraider and when I found out he was tuning I jumped onboard, very soon after Ain. I started tuning with Matt in early July last year. It's common knowledge how that turned out, but to summarise: I had constant boost spikes upto 23-24psi, both FBKC and FLKC events in logs and when I'd compare revisions the changes were random to say the least and induced other problems like stuttering etc. I ended my relationship with Matt after a poor dyno tune which saw my car IAM drop significantly a week later, followed by no communication. 7 days later Matt responded with a revision which saw 24 tables changed including things he'd previously told me he'd nailed in the tune. I sought advice from a friend who advised the changes showed a he didn't really know what was going on and was just trying things.

I then had a brief stint with Eric from Torqued Performance but after nearly 6 months logging almost daily I was over it and really didn't give him much of a chance.

I'm now tuned with MSR and for me his tune has been spot on. No jerkiness or stutter on boost, no boost spikes, great fuel consumption etc. In the one day the car spent with him all of this was achieved and he even diagnosed my cam gear issues. I've logged it since and it's always been spot on.

Since I'd been posting about my experience with regards to Matt I've received numerous, upto 25 PMs, some days from people requesting I just have a look at their tune. For the most part I refer them back to their tuner, but agree to take a Learning View screenshot to give them a general feeling on how things are going or a log to check their boost and boost management. At it's peak I was checking 4 cars per week to put owners minds at ease.

It is a shame I've ended up in this situation as that wasn't the intention. But the fact is most of Matt's clients don't believe his wild tales. He tells people they're making 240kws but when dynoed they make less than 200kws. Pinging cars are sent on their way telling them it's valve train noise or timing chain slap. And cars that are hitting boost cut due to spiking are having CELs turned off, apparently to save the client inconvenience and money. I saw a post on Ozfoz this week where he's suggested a boost spike on a Canberra tuned car is due to Canberra being below sea level and that hadn't been catered for. WTF? Stuff like this does get me riled. I can't fathom how someone would believe stuff like this.

It also seems actual owners don't seem to post honestly about their experiences with Matt but instead PM me their stories of disappointment. Mildly modded cars with not much more than a dump pipe and HKS panel filter are boost spiking and running ridiculously rich 17l/100kms. 27,000km H6 car owner being told they have faulty O2 sensors. Where does it all end?

I don't claim to be the be all and end all of tuning and also don't touch people's cars as I don't have the insurances to cover me for any damage. I state that whenever I meet people or touch their cars. But when a tuned cars have an IAM of .53 after 3 months driving. You'd have to question the tuners ability.

Matt has put himself up as the answer to tuning, being critical of just about every tuner, yet seems to find it difficult to take criticism himself. And it seems his customers either just stop tuning with him when issues arise and never comment on their disappointment. I know of at least 15 people whose cars went backwards tuning with Matt.

Anyone who knows me in person, I reckon can attest to me being a pretty easy going guy. But I'm not going to shy away from reporting things honestly even if others chose quietly slip into the night.

[<GB>]

I can attest to bruce being an awesome and welcoming dude!! he doesnt sugar coat things he says it how it is!

[HoFF]

Thanks for the background there Bruce. I can definitely see where you are coming from now. I'm sure that will clear things up for a few people wondering about you as well.

I'll be honest I know next to nothing about this tuning business. But from my experience with Matt he has been helpful and my car feels and runs quite well. I haven't had any problems at all that I know of. But in saying that I'm not dissecting the tune or the car to find problems.

I'm happy with my economy and the performance, very happy with the performance actually. The drive ability of the car has improved out of sight over stock.

[bass_straitener]

Thanks for the background there Bruce. I can definitely see where you are coming from now. I'm sure that will clear things up for a few people wondering about you as well.

I'll be honest I know next to nothing about this tuning business. But from my experience with Matt he has been helpful and my car feels and runs quite well. I haven't had any problems at all that I know of. But in saying that I'm not dissecting the tune or the car to find problems.

I'm happy with my economy and the performance, very happy with the performance actually. The drive ability of the car has improved out of sight over stock.

I agree with you whole heartedly with regards how a tune should work. You trust the guy, hand over your keys, he tunes it and it feels awesome and you go away with a

When you start learning more the doubt and distrust creeps in.

A replacement engine is expensive and I'd simply hate to see anyone here having to eat 2 minute noodles for months to get their cars back on the road.

At the end of the day it's all about TRUST and I'll leave this for you to contemplate where your trust should lie.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/subaru-news-rumors/232449-2012-subaru-sti-s206-review-4.html

[Kekotic]

I think discussion is good and I have certainly learned a lot ever since people started talking about tuning and logging etc. I just don't think it's appropriate to make blanket statements like below (from the MSR Tuning - 2007 GT auto thread) immediately after someone has shown interest in getting a tune from Matt.

You need to have deep pockets to tune with Matt to cope with blown motors and failing transmissions.

All tuners will have good reviews and horror stories, some more than others. As long as people are fair with their comments and don't try blow things out of proportion then all is good!

[<GB>]

I think discussion is good and I have certainly learned a lot ever since people started talking about tuning and logging etc. I just don't think it's appropriate to make blanket statements like below (from the MSR Tuning - 2007 GT auto thread) immediately after someone has shown interest in getting a tune from Matt.

You need to have deep pockets to tune with Matt to cope with blown motors and failing transmissions.

All tuners will have good reviews and horror stories, some more than others. As long as people are fair with their comments and don't try blow things out of proportion then all is good!

how about a tune review of your own....?

[Kekotic]

how about a tune review of your own....?

Pretty sure I have posted elsewhere that I am very happy with the tune and the tuner.

[Mateusz]

I'll be honest about my tune I had done by Matt last Friday. I'm satisfied with it. It has improved the car for sure. It pulls harder, especially noticeable below 3000rpm. He was very helpful too and explained everything I asked him. I have however not seen any difference with fuel economy (I've only driven about 150kms though), which could be a good thing since running too lean isn't good from what I've read. I should also add that the fuel I had during the tune is different to the one I'm using now (Caltex vs Shell) so possibly that could be the reason for no change in fuel economy.

It's unfortunate to hear that there have been unsatisfied customers. From what I've seen and heard, I thought that these tunes were always top quality. It's difficult to say who is right or wrong though.

I've also heard noises that I thought was pinging and let Matt know. He did say it was likely to be the timing chain tensioner, which makes sense since the sound was only detectable for about half a second when going off and back on throttle sharply, irrelevant of rpm.

Overall, I think the tune is good, as is the tuner. I'd recommend it to anyone with a H6

[jay.ritchie]

I'll be honest about my tune I had done by Matt last Friday. I'm satisfied with it. It has improved the car for sure.

Im in the same boat as you mate.
I love the way the car drives, and it'd be a shame to have it returned to stock.
Just for piece of mind i'm going to take it to a specialist to have it looked over. If they say the engine is in ship shape- i'll be happy.
If they tell me something is not 100%, (due to the tune), i guess i'll have to consider my options.

[<GB>]

I'll be honest about my tune I had done by Matt last Friday. I'm satisfied with it. It has improved the car for sure. It pulls harder, especially noticeable below 3000rpm. He was very helpful too and explained everything I asked him. I have however not seen any difference with fuel economy (I've only driven about 150kms though), which could be a good thing since running too lean isn't good from what I've read. I should also add that the fuel I had during the tune is different to the one I'm using now (Caltex vs Shell) so possibly that could be the reason for no change in fuel economy.

It's unfortunate to hear that there have been unsatisfied customers. From what I've seen and heard, I thought that these tunes were always top quality. It's difficult to say who is right or wrong though.

I've also heard noises that I thought was pinging and let Matt know. He did say it was likely to be the timing chain tensioner, which makes sense since the sound was only detectable for about half a second when going off and back on throttle sharply, irrelevant of rpm.

Overall, I think the tune is good, as is the tuner. I'd recommend it to anyone with a H6

Was it making the timing chain noise before? Have u checked the lv?

[jay.ritchie]

I've got a thread about the timing chain tension failing.
There's a vid there with sound. Try and compare it.

Mine WAS occurring before and after the tune.