Oil Recommendation

[Newbie GT]

Msr is big on Delvac my mate is running it in his GTB and wrxs seem to be using it a lot from my reading.

Is this Delvac a no go ? I know it has to be dumped every 5k...

Thoughts and or expert opinions ?

[dr20t]

Msr strongly recommends delvac for his built motors and customers go have decent kms on their motors

I was one of the converted up until I started reading the sae ratings guides for viscosity and then weight. (Weight is the first number)

Most of us already know that the higher the first number, the "slower" flowing the oil is as its heavier.

My choice was based purely on the tight clearances of a stock ej207 motor

Msr uses it in motors that I have "observed" (could be wrong here) are not completely stock or brand new. Clearances would be looser here especially for built motors.

The heavier 15 weight oil in my opinion isn't sufficient enough at startup to protect the engine bits. This is for an everyday driver.

In terms of the viscosity rating, a 60 weight oil is literally double as thick as a 30 oil at 100 degrees. Essentially you want the thinnest possible oil that retains its properties under the temperature you will be exposing it to.

So for example, the amsoil 10w60 will retain 24cts at 100 degrees, whereas the equivalent 5w30 would be 12. This effectively gives the oil more work to do at lower temps. Thus I would only use the 50 and 60 weighted oils at the track (and nothing less at the track than a 50 weight), but nothing thicker than a 40 oil for the street / daily driving

[coyote]

Mick,

Cts is Carats, cSt is Centistokes.



I think you've moved beyond looking at the 5W30, 10W40, etc that's on the label and should be discussing the technical specs from which those numbers are derived.

It used to be that only thick oil had good film strength, but that's just no longer the case. Top shelf modern synthetics are simply amazing in this regard. It's due to something called reptation where the molecules line up like snakes when in a film under pressure and just don't split apart. Additive packages then help, but they degrade more quickly than the base stock.

You want an oil that keeps the bearings apart, but flows well enough to keep everything cool and clean. That is designed into the engine, the oil pump and all the channels through which the oil flows. An oil that is too thick to get pumped around each rev won't be doing it's job as well.

I've spent maybe 20 years reading up on tribology and am still nowhere near understanding all this, but I think you are basically correct in your approach to go with a specific oil for your two very different applications (street and track). There is no one size fits all solution, despite people's desire to stick with one oil in the same way they never switch beers.

Most cars on here are road cars. They need an oil that flows at a rate of about 11 or 12 cSt at 100C. The further from that they are when cold, the more startup wear. But of course we aren't standing on it until after the oil is warmed up, are we?

If you aren't already doing so, start looking at the HTHS numbers of the oils you intend to use at the track. For the street use oils, also check the TBN.

Then of course test it. Reading forums, asking for advice and staring at spec sheets for nights on end is no substitute for actually testing how your oil is performing in your engine under your application.

At the end of the day, most engines don't fail and many that do, do so for reasons not related to oil. We could probably all use home brand oil and have only a 1% failure rate. Who wants to be the 1%?

[Rome_BRZ]

Mick,

Cts is Carats, cSt is Centistokes.



I think you've moved beyond looking at the 5W30, 10W40, etc that's on the label and should be discussing the technical specs from which those numbers are derived.

It used to be that only thick oil had good film strength, but that's just no longer the case. Top shelf modern synthetics are simply amazing in this regard. It's due to something called reptation where the molecules line up like snakes when in a film under pressure and just don't split apart. Additive packages then help, but they degrade more quickly than the base stock.

You want an oil that keeps the bearings apart, but flows well enough to keep everything cool and clean. That is designed into the engine, the oil pump and all the channels through which the oil flows. An oil that is too thick to get pumped around each rev won't be doing it's job as well.

I've spent maybe 20 years reading up on tribology and am still nowhere near understanding all this, but I think you are basically correct in your approach to go with a specific oil for your two very different applications (street and track). There is no one size fits all solution, despite people's desire to stick with one oil in the same way they never switch beers.

Most cars on here are road cars. They need an oil that flows at a rate of about 11 or 12 cSt at 100C. The further from that they are when cold, the more startup wear. But of course we aren't standing on it until after the oil is warmed up, are we?

If you aren't already doing so, start looking at the HTHS numbers of the oils you intend to use at the track. For the street use oils, also check the TBN.

Then of course test it. Reading forums, asking for advice and staring at spec sheets for nights on end is no substitute for actually testing how your oil is performing in your engine under your application.

At the end of the day, most engines don't fail and many that do, do so for reasons not related to oil. We could probably all use home brand oil and have only a 1% failure rate. Who wants to be the 1%?

You do my head in. I just want a simple solution.

I am currently using Motul Turbolight 10w40 (will double check this when I get home as I am not 100% sure). So what I should do is test this oil? How would I do this?

[coyote]

You do my head in. I just want a simple solution.

I did include the home brand option. It'll probably do the job.

I am currently using Motul Turbolight 10w40 (will double check this when I get home as I am not 100% sure).

The ester based Motul oils (like 300V) are very good, but this one is not in the same class. Have you looked up the specs? Here you go:

http://www.motul.com/system/product_des ... 1333001235

Note that Mick will give you a hard time because it's not SM rated. He's right, but I reckon the smaller companies should be cut some slack when it comes to retrospectively getting old oils approved.

So what I should do is test this oil? How would I do this?

Yes, I do recall someone suggesting you should test it.

There's a site called google and another called yellow pages. Both will give you a list of companies who can do used oil analysis for you. I really don't know who is better/quicker/cheaper/etc.

[coyote]

Note that Mick will give you a hard time because it's not SM rated. He's right, but I reckon the smaller companies should be cut some slack when it comes to retrospectively getting old oils approved.

Just looked at the spec. I wouldn't use that oil with E85 due to the TBN.

[bass_straitener]

Here are the Mobil Delvac vital numbers.

So far I can't see a problem with it. I take it easy when the engine is cold and wait till it reaches normal operating temp before doing anything silly.

And at about $35 per 5L you can easily justify and oil change every 5000kms.

[bass_straitener]

I spoke to Ross Cromwood last week if he had heard of anyone using Delvac oil in the 2.5 turbo subarus and he said no. Might only be used by a few people with major engine work?

Ring Ross tomorrow and check again, I'm sure he's heard of one at least now.

I actually asked him specifically about you at the time and that you were planning on using the delvac oil but I don't think he was quite sure who I was talking about.

Well he knows me now. He was actually over at my place last night...

He didn't have much of an opinion on the Delvac oil but reckons both Phil Lowe and Michael South are reliable sources of info.

[dr20t]

Tony youre a legend mate

And youre absolutely right about testing it to be safe which is exactly what i plan on doing. However i think its pertinent we start from a sound position to begin with thus my research. Jerome I was directing my comment on the previous page to you it was 2am so wasn't about to txt you lol

Change oil bro - ASAP!

The ester content in motul turbo light is completely incompatible with any ethanol based fuel at even 1000kms (there's examples of guys using it at track days where it was less than say 100kms of driving total, and by the end of the session it was ratshit)

Perfect oil for 98 but disaster for e85 based cars I think

[coyote]

You're right about the ester based oils and E85. It's not specifically that E85 is the problem, those base stocks just don't handle any acid contamination.

So which two oils have you decided to try? Are you going to use a multigrade racing oil for the track?

[dr20t]

Read my post (read: essay) on the previous page

Mick

[Rome_BRZ]

Read my post (read: essay) on the previous page

Mick

I actually missed that. So you think the Penrite 10w40 for me too? I'll speak to you tonight

[coyote]

Read my post (read: essay) on the previous page

Mick

Penrite specs are stupid.

No TBN for your daily driven oil and no HTHS for your race oil.

I also think they make a decent product, but it's as if they don't want you to know some of the most important info.

[senator]

Read my post (read: essay) on the previous page

Mick

Penrite specs are stupid.

No TBN for your daily driven oil and no HTHS for your race oil.

I also think they make a decent product, but it's as if they don't want you to know some of the most important info.

I pretty sure there was some TBN and NTHA in the last MSG infused Asian meal I had.

[coyote]

I pretty sure there was some TBN and NTHA in the last MSG infused Asian meal I had.

The places you VW drivers eat, I'm not surprised.