3.0 new owner review - AUTO tranny point of view

[MH3.0R]

Find a tuner who has a track record with auto's. Matt from Kido-Racing (in the commercial section of the For Sale thread) is doing my ECU DBW tuning and it is improving with each ROM image. Hard tuning the TCU and Valve body did not work. There are too many parameters of the ECU that have direct impact on the transmission performance.

Without doubt, before any mods to the tranny, go with a tuner like Matt who knows the intricate dependencies between ECU and transmission like no other tuner I have engaged with.

After my experience with Valve Body mods, I would say don't waste your time. Save the money (about $1400) and put it toward other mods or maintenance (could also be applied to wife, girlfriend or significant other).

Alternatively, use it to buy a notebook computer and a Tactrix Cable to connect to your OBDII port which then facilitates the whole ownership/tuning experience if you want to go that route with an experienced and knowledgeable tuner. Learn how to read and write to your ECU (at your risk of course) through the RomRaider and Open ECU forums.

If and when your tranny does need to have an overhaul, then I would consider the upgraded friction plates and additional ones in each clutch pack. But only if you are chasing high torque and power numbers. Stock will not need it. Costs for me were around $3800 for the transmission and centre diff to have all clutch packs upgraded while also applying a standard Subaru overhaul kit. Car was off the road for 5 weeks (ouch)!

[scottb721]

28Oct11 I took delivery of an MY08 3.0R AUTO Spec B Liberty Sedan and thought I'd provide some feedback for intending buyers of a similar vehicle regarding my experiences with the transmission. It was one of my unknowns when I was looking to buy myself.

Hey Mate!
Thanks for taking the time to post this & leave it up despite the stick you copped initially!! This has gone a long way to helping me decide, & it looks like I might now be leaning towards auto now with less fear.....
:

That's fine. I'm still throughly enjoying the auto. It's actually been nice to be lazy when I want to but then just as easily have the semi-manual experience when I get the urge.
The main thing that has made the auto just as much fun has been the ability to change down when I want it to rather than when it would do it normally, and being able to hold a chosen gear.

It's about being in the right gear at the right time. I'm still getting to do that. No need to plant it and wait for the good ole kickdown.

[Nottage969]

Hey buddy, thanks for taking the time to type this one up..Despite the stick you copped in the initial page of the thread!


I am looking at an upgrade from a MY03 RX to either a 3.0 or GT, so this is completely relevant to me. Only driven a manual all my life. Despite the fact i don't think i will be able to afford a MY06 onwards and therefore not the paddle shift, it is interesting and provides some motivation to test drive one and maybe intend on continuing to save...


Thanks again, much appreciated!

[scottb721]

I basically did the same thing. MY03 manual to an 3.0.
I did drive an 06 auto and would not have taken it over a manual. However I have been happy with the paddles.
Mind you the 08 was generally nicer overall compared to the 06. I guess that's the whole point of a face lift.
I don't recall if the 06 did rev matching on down shift.

For me, pre-facelift get a manual, post-facelift have a go of both.

[AWDDave]

I'd hope the SI drives does add something, because the earlier model (MY06) 3.0-auto that i test-drove was absolute rubbish
the 5 speeds and the way it changed gears just did not match the torque band of the engine.

i.e to keep the thing in the power-zone (>4000rpm) you really needed to hold it flat (lots of throttle) to make it shift late so that the revs stayed above 4000rpm
whereas the 6 speed you can still keep the revs high with less throttle input, and use full throttle when actually needed.

i guess the si-drive in s# is programmed to allow this, whereas the earlier models did not allow it

There is not difference. Driving a prefacelift is like driving the postfacelift in S mode.

I found the Auto 3.0R-B to be rubbish (pre or post facelift). The box is slow and dim-witted and sapped alot of the limited available torque in the car. Furthermore, being quite a peaky motor, it meant that you needed to wring it a lot just to keep it up in traffic. I think the acceleration times say a lot in how the auto box takes out the fun of driving the car. Manual - 6.9 seconds whilst Automatic - 8.2 seconds. Flappy paddle works well on downshifts, but are argonizingly slow on upshifts (like OMG slow).

Having said that, the auto when mated to a the 2.0GT or 2.5GT motors were really nice drives - and I suspect this is due the power delivery, as they are the same gearboxes found in the 3.0

Personal opinion - if you're getting a 3.0... go with a manual. They're FANTASTIC in a manual (yes I've driven a few). If you need an auto, go with the TB versions.

P.S: I sold my 3.0R-B because of this reason... and the ridiculous fuel consumption having stepped out of a 2.0GT. I very much regretted my decision going an auto 3.0R-B

[mrcrazydude]

I'd hope the SI drives does add something, because the earlier model (MY06) 3.0-auto that i test-drove was absolute rubbish
the 5 speeds and the way it changed gears just did not match the torque band of the engine.

i.e to keep the thing in the power-zone (>4000rpm) you really needed to hold it flat (lots of throttle) to make it shift late so that the revs stayed above 4000rpm
whereas the 6 speed you can still keep the revs high with less throttle input, and use full throttle when actually needed.

i guess the si-drive in s# is programmed to allow this, whereas the earlier models did not allow it

There is not difference. Driving a prefacelift is like driving the postfacelift in S mode.

I found the Auto 3.0R-B to be rubbish (pre or post facelift). The box is slow and dim-witted and sapped alot of the limited available torque in the car. Furthermore, being quite a peaky motor, it meant that you needed to wring it a lot just to keep it up in traffic. I think the acceleration times say a lot in how the auto box takes out the fun of driving the car. Manual - 6.9 seconds whilst Automatic - 8.2 seconds. Flappy paddle works well on downshifts, but are argonizingly slow on upshifts (like OMG slow).

Having said that, the auto when mated to a the 2.0GT or 2.5GT motors were really nice drives - and I suspect this is due the power delivery, as they are the same gearboxes found in the 3.0

Personal opinion - if you're getting a 3.0... go with a manual. They're FANTASTIC in a manual (yes I've driven a few). If you need an auto, go with the TB versions.

P.S: I sold my 3.0R-B because of this reason... and the ridiculous fuel consumption having stepped out of a 2.0GT. I very much regretted my decision going an auto 3.0R-B

Wow!
that seems completely contradictory to what everyone else has been saying!
I'm lucky enough that I have a close friend who has an '05 GT in Auto who is going to let me have a bit of a drive, so I'll see how I feel about that. I'm also hoping to find someone who has had their auto 'box tuned and see if I can sweet talk a bit of a drive to see how it goes.
Certainly the 06 Auto 3RB I test drove felt like you really needed to wring it to get much from it

Thanks for the feedback, definately trying to read as many opinions as possible!

[AWDDave]

I believe in the US, they have transmission valve overhauls, which alow for snappier changes on the auto. However, I don't know if this would help in the 3.0R-B's case, due to the lack of torque in the motor.

The manual utilizes the available torque in the 3.0R-B and being manual, you can keep it spinning (which it loves to do) up at peak torque.

The auto in a turbo helps mask some of the turbo lag, but it helps to ride the torque wave the comes through when on boost - which I should add, come at much earlier revs than the 3.0 (2.5TB - 339NM @ 3600rpms whilst the 3.0 - 297 @ 6600rpms) - hence why it seems so much more driveable.

Anyway, it's ultimately up to the individual...

[zch91]

I believe in the US, they have transmission valve overhauls, which alow for snappier changes on the auto. However, I don't know if this would help in the 3.0R-B's case, due to the lack of torque in the motor.

The manual utilizes the available torque in the 3.0R-B and being manual, you can keep it spinning (which it loves to do) up at peak torque.

The auto in a turbo helps mask some of the turbo lag, but it helps to ride the torque wave the comes through when on boost - which I should add, come at much earlier revs than the 3.0 (2.5TB - 339NM @ 3600rpms whilst the 3.0 - 297 @ 6600rpms) - hence why it seems so much more driveable.

Anyway, it's ultimately up to the individual...

MH3.0R has done the valve body mod and didn't get the results that are achievable from a tune from KiDo (as mentioned a few posts up)

[MH3.0R]

I believe in the US, they have transmission valve overhauls, which alow for snappier changes on the auto. However, I don't know if this would help in the 3.0R-B's case, due to the lack of torque in the motor.

The manual utilizes the available torque in the 3.0R-B and being manual, you can keep it spinning (which it loves to do) up at peak torque.

The auto in a turbo helps mask some of the turbo lag, but it helps to ride the torque wave the comes through when on boost - which I should add, come at much earlier revs than the 3.0 (2.5TB - 339NM @ 3600rpms whilst the 3.0 - 297 @ 6600rpms) - hence why it seems so much more driveable.

Anyway, it's ultimately up to the individual...

MH3.0R has done the valve body mod and didn't get the results that are achievable from a tune from KiDo (as mentioned a few posts up)

Correct!

There is a scenario where a vavle body mod may be the most applicable, most likely on a transmission with 100K on it and you have improved the engine power. The valve body mod will increase the line pressures applied to the clutch packs and therefore contribute to the transmission being able to cope with the increased power and torque from the engine.

There are also several scenarios where the valve body mod is not worth considering. For example, if the transmission has done several 100K kms and is due for an overhaul (detected transmission slip), then with upgraded friction plates alone or additional clutches installed per clutch pack, or both (my case) then a simple tune from Kido-Racing will achieve all you ever need from our Liberty 3.0R or GT auto platforms. The valve body mod makes the tuning from Kido-Racing more ownerous for no real gain.

Silky smooth and fast transmission shifts, dare I claim as quick as a DSG (to repeat the claims of others) but a lot smoother and no loss of torque applied to the wheels like a DSG. Not been to a dyno yet as we are still doing the fine tuning, then will embark on the performance tuning, but I know what it is like to drive now compared to when it was new. It is like a whole new car experience. And really, NO LAG.

There is a video of my exhaust in Project Veloci within the Post your mods section. You can hear a couple of the shifts that supports what I am writing here.

So for me (my personal preference), I will only buy autos from this point forward (used to be a pure manual driver and got over it). I would then get a transmission tune followed by a performance tune. You will be loving the auto from that day forward. The only guy that I know of in Aus that can obtain the correct results is Matt from Kido-Racing.

[mrcrazydude]

So Mark...... When are you coming to Sydney so you can take me for a spin in your ride???

Anyone in Sydney with a KiDo tube willing to take me for a ride?

[MH3.0R]

So Mark...... When are you coming to Sydney so you can take me for a spin in your ride???

Anyone in Sydney with a KiDo tube willing to take me for a ride?

In Sydney regularly, but not with the car. You are welcome to come to Melbourne and I am sure we could organise a meet. There are lots down here with Kido tunes that would be willing to take you for a ride!

[scottb721]

Do get me wrong. I only have it auto when I'm putting along. For anything driving remotely interesting I switch to manual control. This removes the laggy gear changes mentioned above that I also find annoying in auto.

[AWDDave]

I don't think switching it into tiptronic/paddle shift makes any difference to the gear changes.

All it does, it provide the driver with the opportunity to change gears when they wish instead of letting the box decide.

[zch91]

I don't think switching it into tiptronic/paddle shift makes any difference to the gear changes.

All it does, it provide the driver with the opportunity to change gears when they wish instead of letting the box decide.

I agree. That's the way it works in my car atleast.

[scottb721]

I don't think switching it into tiptronic/paddle shift makes any difference to the gear changes.

All it does, it provide the driver with the opportunity to change gears when they wish instead of letting the box decide.

That IS the entire point though. The driver decides what gear and when.
And this is what I've been trying to get across since my OP when saying the auto has been just as much fun to drive, from a person that prefers manual gearboxes.
The rev matching on manual down shift even gives you the engine braking I'm accustomed to, at times I'm not even needing any brake pedal to slow the car sufficiently for cornering and traffic.

I've been paying close attention to lag between grabbing a gear, either up or down, and the time it takes to shift. I'm experiencing gear change within a second and certainly no slower than the clutch in - gear change - clutch out scenario of a manual. Once I can rig up a cam I'll take some vid of the cluster whilst going up and down the box.