$500 to spend...Tune or Dump Pipe?

[Rome_BRZ]

on a similar note to what jim is saying, just because a vendor on this forum is highly regarded, that doesnt mean you have to buy from them.

if someone is selling the same/similar product for cheaper, then go with them.

True, also what Jim is talking about is an exhaust shop who is custom making the dump for your car, which I agree with. I was just referring to not going with cheaper imitation products. Some people might like buying imitation but that's just not the way I prefer to spend my hard earned dollars, that's just my opinion.

[SH30RB]

Oh no, i know what your talking about jerome that $70 'brand new, genuine, still in original packaging STi 6sp short shifter' coming from china or pakistan... Its not even worth $10

By all means shop around for the best 'value for money' product. Dont go for the option with the best reputation, or the cheapest, go for the cheapest option that has the best reputation

[PoidaGT]

I would get the dump then get a tune down the track.

No point tuning it now and then having to have it retuned after the dump pipe goes back on.

[zorro]

$550 for a dump pipe!!!!! Is it made of gold?

[Sheik Jabooti]

$550 for a dump pipe!!!!! Is it made of gold?

LOLS...I thought that was cheap. You should check out the PhatGT custom DPs that a tonne of forum members have bought...they're $1000!

[zorro]

Heh fools and their money are easily parted

[dr20t]

Heh fools and their money are easily parted

I nearly shit a brick too when I first heard the price of a 3" dump fpr the lib. This was because all my previous turbo cars cost close to nothing for a dump pipe. One was rwd, one fwd and another awd.

The difference with the lib is the integrated cat in dump pipe, and the difficulty of mounting given turbo location especially in an auto. Clearance to steering knuckle is very tight and depending which model 2.0 or 2.5, there are two o2 sensor bungs required (yes yes worth nothing I know but labour cost to drill, helicoil and weld on).

There's a bit more work involved than just your usual wrex etc.

I paid 500 for my dump originally when I had my vf38 twin scroll, that was hand made by a local exh place and only mild steel with a 200cel metal cat and two bungs for 02 sensors.

Then paid another 100 bucks or so to have it modified to suit my upgraded turbo with 3" v band outlet.

To the original question personally I would recommend getting the tune done first given it will be a while before your next mod. This will give you several things:

1. Better fuel economy (yes you read that right better as the Subaru tune I shiteness)
2. Safer afr's and less likelihood of peak torque induced detonation
3. Better driveability
4. Better throttle response
5. Less lag from dbw and other associated symptoms
6, More power / torque across the rev range not just peak power

Then with your lower fuel bill you will have more money to get other mods on future and upgrade your tune to suit.

This will also make your car more fun to drive than a dump pipe which will give you noise and some boost spike which won't do anything but increase your fuel bill and fool you into thinking you're going faster

My two cents

Good luck

Mick

[zorro]

Thanks mick for that into, I wasn't aware they had a cat in there too although by integrated do you mean flanged to bolt a cat on or cat welded?

[Jim]

With you on this one Mick, as i was saying from the start.

The inital tune will be the most expensive, getting it adjusted to suit a dump later in the track will be cheaper than an initial tune anyway.

[Sheik Jabooti]

Bloody Hell...
I was just reconciling myself to the general consensus that the DP first would be the preferred option, even though I was thinking along the lines of Jim's original reply. Now I read another strong case from Mick (dr20t) for doing the tune first.

Unlike the majority of guys on this forum that seem to have mod money to burn, I need to be quite selective as to how I can spend the limited spare cash that I have.

As for Jim's comment:

The inital tune will be the most expensive, getting it adjusted to suit a dump later in the track will be cheaper than an initial tune anyway.

Not necessarily true in this case. The tune I was going for was the remote tune from west_minst at XRT.

The following maps will be tuned:
Boost increase by 0.5psi - 1psi - All Around
Wastegate maps to allow for 0.5psi-1psi boost increase
Fuel Maps
Ignition maps
DBW - Street Tuned
Other minor additional maps

His entry level tune (viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15993) doesn't equate to a stage 1 tune. Effectively to move to stage 1 would require starting from scratch again (he reckons).

Ah well...I think I might flip a coin at this stage...but, as a one off exercise, I am still thinking I'll get more benefit from a basic tune than a DP.

[Sometimes I wish I had a bucket full of mod money and a spare car to try it all out on]

[Rome_BRZ]

I never think of tune $$$ the right way. I always assume the retune is going to be the same price but really it's not. Taking that into account a tune first really is the best thing to do if you aren't going to add another mod for a while. However I don't have the option of a $500 tune, the tuner I'd be using is $1,000 so that wouldn't help you...

[zorro]

It's a hard one to make a decision on, really you need to think about what mods you will be looking at in the future as this can affect what option you go with.

If you are keeping mods basic bolt ons a tune now and then a touch up later on would be a good idea. If you are going to get serious and squeeze more boost, injector upgrades, turbo etc etc then you probably best to accumulate parts and get it all done at once as a tune now and heavy mods will need more than a touch up.

[Stomps]

interesting discussion.. being in a similar position.. (deciding on initial mods) it's interesting to hear some people's viewpoints..

I have to admit when i first saw $500 for a dump pipe i laughed my arse off.. every single turbo car i've owned in the past had a basic 3" to 3.5" off the turbo, straight thru.. never cost me more than $200 to make..

with integrated cat it's a different story.. one important thing to remember is: it's an exhaust component.. i've learned a very long time ago that spending big dollars on shiny things that sit below your car is a waste of money IF a cheaper, less shiny bit of metal can do the same thing... IMO putting expensive brand name exhaust PIPES on your car is nigh on retarded... mufflers, cats etc.. is a different story, but if you are paying 3x as much for shiny straight pipe, you are wasting your money..

as some have said, as long as the tune is easily modifiable or upgradeable in future, go with a tune first... you almost always get better long term results..

driveability is ALWAYS more important than peak power, unless you are just after a massive E-Wang..

having said all that though, i would go suspension mods first... at least a pair of good adjustable swaybars, from the few months i've been driving mine, these things DESPERATELY need them..

my 2 quid fiddy anyway...

[west_minist]

Bloody Hell...
Not necessarily true in this case. The tune I was going for was the remote tune from west_minst at XRT.

The following maps will be tuned:
Boost increase by 0.5psi - 1psi - All Around
Wastegate maps to allow for 0.5psi-1psi boost increase
Fuel Maps
Ignition maps
DBW - Street Tuned
Other minor additional maps

His entry level tune (viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15993) doesn't equate to a stage 1 tune. Effectively to move to stage 1 would require starting from scratch again (he reckons).

Ah well...I think I might flip a coin at this stage...but, as a one off exercise, I am still thinking I'll get more benefit from a basic tune than a DP.

[Sometimes I wish I had a bucket full of mod money and a spare car to try it all out on]

Well it all depends on how I feel and have the time. In these very basic tuning, the most I touch is ignition. I dont want to be bog down. In stage 1, you try to get stuff on the bang and do everything you can to just improve the car so much. Stage 2 is cheaper if you had completed stage 1.

[Sheik Jabooti]

So to close off this story I ended following a windy path to enlightenment. Here is how it went:

1) I decided on the cheap tune from XRT. This was a big waste of money.
2) Back to stock tune and installed an Ultrex Turbo back exhaust (minus mufflers = stealth back). Greatly improved the driveability. There was a really noticeable reduction in turbo lag but no huge power gains.
3) $400 tune from Matt @ Kido_Tuning. <Insert Expletive Here> AMAZING!!! Car drives like a completely different beast. Strong and smooth. Great gear shifts and oodles more torque. Worth every single penny and more.


So in hindsight...if I only had the $500 I would got the Kido Tune on stock setup ($400) and still have $100 to spend on fluffy dice. But ideally, the best plan would have been getting a dump (ideally dump+mid+Y) and then get Matt to do his magic (that's all up about $1500 worth). But if you only had $500 and didn't plan to spend anymore then the tune along would make the biggest difference.

Well that my story anyway