RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby west_minist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:38 pm

What you call a safe tune is questionable. Let me explain

Safe is relative :) In the boost world, its about psi you run to turbo efficiency and ign. Fuel contributes tremendous, but running a safe fuel, its all down to psi and ign.

Now in the SC, you cannot control the boost easily like in a turbo(by the use of a wastegate) and is design from the manufacture what boost the SC will use and this is due to the pulley. Raptor runs more PSI with an IC than without and that option is provided by the pulley. Tim correct me.

Now since you cannot change the boost :) hint hint, what is safe???? just reduce ign :) so interesting. No bashing anyone but its all common sense.

So since I cannot control my max boost except from design and keep my ign low, how low is determine by fuel and temperature compensations. This is where extensive road testing can tell you or you can take the short cut. Pull a number of degrees out and hand the customer the car. I do it a little different. Tune on the worst gas, knowing that you will use the best or tune on the best car or normal gas and take a few degree out if I see a lot of inconsistencies.

Sorry that I see things differently and I respond here like if I am a non tuner. I am a Telcoms Engineer so I guess I maybe not understand things the way it should be. Sorry for my sarcasm but I just find it funny when some statements are made to minds which can be a sponge.
Last edited by west_minist on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby west_minist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:43 pm

I think any persons considering any boost application needs to look at boost 101 for general knowledge. When you compress air, it will heat up. I think when boosting, a IC, WTA IC, etc should be a must, regardless of the boost level. Cooler is better :)
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby Tradewind » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:17 pm

I recently installed I wish's K2gear headers mated to an x-force cat back and magna flow mufflers, so I’m eagerly waiting how the WTA cooler works out.


I wondered for a while who bought them!

Did you feel any difference after fitting or more or less all the same??
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby 3rspecb » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:58 pm

First thing I noticed was how much better the engine reved out. Going by my bumometer, the car feels better down low too.

Oh and the exhaust note is pretty awesome when on song :D
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby Tradewind » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:03 pm

3rspecb wrote:First thing I noticed was how much better the engine reved out. Going by my bumometer, the car feels better down low too.

Oh and the exhaust note is pretty awesome when on song :D



G

That's the perfect response. We found same with 4cyl Subaru, better low and far better rev out

Awesome
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby MH3.0R » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:59 am

3rspecb wrote:First thing I noticed was how much better the engine reved out. Going by my bumometer, the car feels better down low too.

Oh and the exhaust note is pretty awesome when on song :D


I can second those remarks. First thing I noticed was how quick the engine got to the red line. Second aspect for me was the lift in torque across the range and completely filled the torque hole that I was experiencing.

On the Intake Air Temps, I would like to open the discussion on why the comments in this thread conclude that "high" temps are bad? I understand that excessive engine temperatures can induce additional wear of the friction surfaces in the engine internals, however, all logging that I have done shows the highest IAT was in the classic stop start traffic situation (up to 72 degrees C for my vehicle), but the engine loads in traffic and the rpm are both low. We do not need a lot of power or torque in these low engine load situations, so I conclude from this the "additional engine wear" will be as light as the engine load under those circumstances. Other logging parameters during the same event saw water temps remain around 92 to 94 degrees C, so stable water temps (I assume this means engine temps as well) during a fluctuating IAT range from 30 to 72, seems to remain in the normal range. I therefore conclude no additional engine wear.

The other advantage of higher IAT is the ability to help vapourise the fuel and provide a cleaner burn, so economy should be improved. I have seen this happen as I was initially seeing a maximum of 450 per tank and in the summer months up to 550 per tank is achievable for me in a cycle of 50% city 50% freeway driving. Prior to the SC kit, 600 per tank was common place for me (After the V-tune).

Now, I also understand that if one is chasing the maximum possible power and torque under all conditions (for example, the race track), then the cooler air temps will definitely assist in achieving the power and torque, but at the cost of economy. But then again, if you are at the track, you are not concerned with economy unless you are in the 24 hour event!

So, for me, it comes down to how you are using the vehicle and in my application, as a daily drive, I may well be able to operate efficiently and effectively without an Intercooler. Not saying I wont be considering the addition of the WTA at a later date, just that I am comfortable in my driving style and environment that maybe I do not NEED one, as opposed to I might WANT one. I guess when I get bored with my current power and torque, my WANT will grow into a NEED !!! :lol:

Now, I am not a mechanical engineer, so you will be able to shoot me down in flames, but just opening up for comments about the different applications of our vehicles and the NEED versus the WANT aspect to the Intercooler option. Happy to take all comments, slagging, backhanders, what ever!
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby Tradewind » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:32 am

I am right with you on most of that

Higher intake temps definitely assist with cruise fuel economy - ALL the kits which I sell which acheive better than stock fuel economy (holdens/Fords) are the non intercooled.

As soon as we go intercooled the fuel consumption on cruise increases by up to 2liter/100kms! This could be the case with the Liberty too. With Impreza its not so marked but still more fuel hungry once intercooled - in a cruise scenario

The negative of extra heat has is really not so much if anything to do with engine wear but with combustion stability - thats the ONE parameter that can get out of hand if a large amount of ignition timing is carried forward

Otherwise -


The comments I carried forward as a quote on 3rspecb was about the before and after of adding he extractors - or do you have them as well MH?
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby MH3.0R » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:57 pm

Tradewind wrote:...
The comments I carried forward as a quote on 3rspecb was about the before and after of adding he extractors - or do you have them as well MH?


No Tim, no extractors at the moment. On the to do list after the brakes, auto trans rebuild and TCU tune.
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We have Intercooler for H6 3.0

Postby Tradewind » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:31 pm

Finally after long wait - today we have the quality piece in our hands

Its only a small matter to integrate this into the system - but fabricator has been faced with massive work orders in the time we have waited.

See how we go

This is the 500hp compact series cooler
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby SH30RB » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:43 pm

thats an intercooler? how the f*** does it work?
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby MH3.0R » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:04 pm

SH30RB wrote:thats an intercooler? how the f*** does it work?


Well, the cooled water goes in the small pipe and out the other small pipe to the front mounted radiator (cycled by a small electric pump) and the charge pipe enters the larger pipe and cooled charge exits into the manifold via the throttle body. Simple, but very effective!!!

I also like the look. It radiates quality (no pun intended).
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby Tradewind » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:06 pm

SH30RB wrote:thats an intercooler? how the f*** does it work?


I guess you are new to cars and stuff so I will give a quick run down on Water to Air intercoolers

A water to air intercooler system has the following parts, an intercooler (shown), a pump, a liquid reservior, some hoses to connect all parts and a radiator.


The boost passes through the intercooler core, the heat from boost is absorbed by the water around the tubes of the intercooler core, the water is then pumped to radiator where the water gives up its heat to the atmosphere - is cooled and then returned to the intercooler to absorb more heat.

Works a bit like the airconditioner system does except there is no phase change to the liquid
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby SH30RB » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:30 pm

ahhhhhhhhh, i see say's the blind man. thanks tim and mark! i am new to mechanics side of things as i have never really been mechanically minded, especially boosting a car whether it be supercharged or turbocharged.

ive only ever seen an FMIC and TMIC with air to air? if thats what they are called, ive never seen a WTA IC
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CEL and new additive

Postby Tradewind » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:45 pm

My car threw a CEL last night/flashing cruise light, started running weird and jumpy at lowish rpm and the VVT was hitting hard around 2500rpm and motor would then refuse to go more than 5500rpm.

The code referred to CAM POS Timing Over - Adv P0011 (B1)

I restarted the vehicle a couple of times but no real change - since I was over the other side of town I cruised on home, at a set of lights about 5km from home it instantly decided it now knew where cam timing was and ran flawlessly ever since. I cleared the CEL this morning - all good. No idea why it decided on this little action


Second thing - I am trying an oil additive by XADO, I added this yesterday afternoon - it is expensive but promises much (they all do). It is a very blue coloured substance in tiny tubes, same colour as the REDLINE oil - exactly. I am looking for shift smoothness and quieter trans operation in the first 3 gears at very low rpm. I need to cover about 1500 km before I can give a final report, apparently it will do all the good it can in 1500km, after that no further improvement.

Weblink is here

http://www.xado.com.au/

http://www.xado.com.au/catalogue/revita ... ansmission
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Re: RAPTOR SUPERCHARGER FOR LIB 3.0

Postby Tradewind » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:45 pm

Another small development

You will note there is now another page on the Raptor website in the Subaru section

http://www.raptorsc.com.au/models.php?id=6

A specific page for the intercooled Supercharger kit

Once this page is complete I will remove the reference to intercooling from the original page
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