Rear wheels = more power?

[stefan9155]

By going to a few tracks/courses i feel the need to change a few things to my lib
What's the best way to allow the rear wheels to produce more power than the front?
Thanks

[Arith]

Buy a Holden?

[teK--]

remove the front driveshafts lol. Not sure if the centre diff would shit itself

[Woodduck]

Im not meaning to offend here....but why waste time trying to configure your car for track when its only a 2L anyway....im not dissing the 2L, im just saying your not going to get the times even if the car is set up well because an N/A 2L doesn't produce enough power for the weight of a lib to be a good track car....

[coyote]

Don't worry about the guys in here man, they are just ricers and diss anyone who is into performance.

What you need is a DCCD controller to alter the torque split of the centre coupling. Easiest way to get one is to hunt around the jap wreckers for an RA gearbox (which will be handy in your track weapon anyway) and find one that comes with everything you need for some DCCD goodness.

That's the proven method. Of course if you are mechanically minded, you could pull apart your existing centre coupling. It is just a bunch of plates in viscous fluid, so altering the amount of drive sent to the rear wheels shouldn't be much harder than mapping the human genome.

Whatever you do, post lots of pics, we love pics. And make sure your DCCD controller is a genuine MOMO one!

[Arith]

Don't worry about the guys in here man, they are just ricers and diss anyone who is into performance.

Not me! I'm just ignorant!

[teK--]

IMHO nothing wrong with trying to set up the 2.0 for the track, however there are a few things to keep in mind.

1. Be clear with the expected outcome. The 2.0 is not going to be setting lap records at Sandown but if set up well the Liberty can be quite a good chassis to drive on motorkhanas/skidpans.

Proof of this is that with my 2.5i I was regularly outgunned on the longer road tracks which reached high speeds, but on the skidpan I was beating turbo Skylines since it put more emphasis on suspension setup and driver skill.

2. With the lower power of the 2.0 you are going to make up your mind as to whether you want a track-orientated car or a pimping street cruiser. If you want a track car you cannot afford to be fitting heavy stereos, heavy 19" wheels or adding anything else to the car which affects your power/weight.

3. Most of your money needs to be poured into suspension mods and good tyres instead. Perhaps even an advanced driver training course.


P.S. I always thought the centre diffs in our cars were purely mechanical? I.e. no electronic control.

[coyote]

I didn't know they did the 2.0R engine in the MY05.

[teK--]

I didn't know they did the 2.0R engine in the MY05.

FYI the 2.0R is just a 2.0L NA engine... They had these in the MY04 too.

[subnub]

You're trying to tune out understeer by the sound of it.

You can do that much more easily with suspension setup than by messing around with changing the amount of drive at either end. Even if you were to change the F/R drive bias you still would not have altered the car's basic geometry so all other handling characteristics, including its propensity for public-friendly understeer, would remain all but intact.

Forget about modifying the F/R drive bias - doing it properly won't be cheap or easy and by itself will more than likely yield very little benefit compared to the effort expended. With the 2.0 your efforts should be focussed on maintaining corner speed as you'll need to maximise every single bit of forward momentum you can find.

As tek mentioned, suspension setup, a decent set of tyres (get a set of semi slicks on a spare set of rims) and a good advanced driver training course will bring your biggest improvements, along with making sure your brakes are up to the job. Don't forget reliability mods too - cooling, oil/fuel delivery etc... and don't underestimate the value of a seat that holds you in place properly!

on the skidpan I was beating turbo Skylines since it put more emphasis on suspension setup and driver skill

... and AWD traction? Even if they were GTRs they are a completely different AWD system which isn't as suited to the skidpan.

Not trying to downplay your efforts or anything mate, just trying not to set unrealistic expectations for the OP!

[coyote]

I didn't know they did the 2.0R engine in the MY05.

FYI the 2.0R is just a 2.0L NA engine... They had these in the MY04 too.

Oh really?

They had DOHC engines with AVCS that spun up to 7,000rpm in the MY04?

I didn't know that!

[teK--]

You're trying to tune out understeer by the sound of it.

You can do that much more easily with suspension setup than by messing around with changing the amount of drive at either end. Even if you were to change the F/R drive bias you still would not have altered the car's basic geometry so all other handling characteristics, including its propensity for public-friendly understeer, would remain all but intact.

Another thing I should note is that it is common for people to reduce understeer by increasing oversteer, i.e. by only reducing the grip of the rear wheels. This works to a certain point before there is a detriment to the overall grip of the car, so I always look at ways to improve the grip of the front wheels as well, since that improves the grip of the car as a whole.

on the skidpan I was beating turbo Skylines since it put more emphasis on suspension setup and driver skill

... and AWD traction? Even if they were GTRs they are a completely different AWD system which isn't as suited to the skidpan.

Not trying to downplay your efforts or anything mate, just trying not to set unrealistic expectations for the OP!

If anything I would have felt that AWD made it easier for the driver on the skidpan, but not necessary quicker than RWD since for a smaller engine like mine there is more driveline power loss and also of course the reduced ability to kick the back around. I was more referring to the skidpan being limited in the top speed you can attain, and also more technically based, which removes a lot of the advantage that more powerful cars have on the open track.

[teK--]

I didn't know they did the 2.0R engine in the MY05.

FYI the 2.0R is just a 2.0L NA engine... They had these in the MY04 too.

Oh really?

They had DOHC engines with AVCS that spun up to 7,000rpm in the MY04?

I didn't know that!

Nah just the vanilla SOHC with no AVCS

[coyote]

The biggest problem with the drivetrain of these cars on a race track is the open front differential. The inside front gets light and with an open front diff, it just spins .. robbing you of speed. You can try all kinds of suspension fixes, but at the end of the day they really need a front lsd to go fast.

on the skidpan I was beating turbo Skylines since it put more emphasis on suspension setup and driver skill

... and AWD traction? Even if they were GTRs they are a completely different AWD system which isn't as suited to the skidpan.

Come on Marc, you know Skyline owners can't drive

I take it you mean the on/off way they sometimes transfer power to the rear? That's just the old ones (and I'm sure you know it's easy to fix).

Anyway, I'll leave this to people who've actually driven on skidpans, rather than try to be an Internetz expert.

[teK--]

The biggest problem with the drivetrain of these cars on a race track is the open front differential. The inside front gets light and with an open front diff, it just spins .. robbing you of speed. You can try all kinds of suspension fixes, but at the end of the day they really need a front lsd to go fast.

Hey Tony any idea of approx price for a front LSD? I imagine a large part of cost would be in labor as well to open up the gearbox. I'm not particulary hot on the idea (yet ) but just curious.

Until then I'm doing what I can to reduce the inside wheel getting light!