Increasing Performance of the H6

[Swipez]

Unless you plan on running e85 and/ or boost, upgrading your stock fuel pump is a waste of money for an n/a car. Sam with injectors

Sorry mate, forgot to mention that, when I said "a bigger better fuel pump" I meant for if you were tuning for E85 yes. Matt asked me to put a better fuel pump because my h6 is getting E85'd.

[WIDELOAD]

I'm in the US.

Deatschwerks DW65c would work for you then.
Just look at what drop in pumps people are using, and go for the same thing.

[Housemusic1]

Do you notice any real power gains with E85 on a NA engine? Obviously they gains are not like a turbo engine on E85, but I'm just wondering if the cost can be justified. Car is modestly tuned right now, will have Raptor Headers, Raptor CAI, and full exhaust in March. E85 is everywhere in my area.

[HardwareBoB]

Do you notice any real power gains with E85 on a NA engine? Obviously they gains are not like a turbo engine on E85, but I'm just wondering if the cost can be justified. Car is modestly tuned right now, will have Raptor Headers, Raptor CAI, and full exhaust in March. E85 is everywhere in my area.

On the H6, yes. You will gain a significant amount of torque.

[BillyCorgi]

Do you notice any real power gains with E85 on a NA engine? Obviously they gains are not like a turbo engine on E85, but I'm just wondering if the cost can be justified. Car is modestly tuned right now, will have Raptor Headers, Raptor CAI, and full exhaust in March. E85 is everywhere in my area.

The biggest gains in E85 are
[1] Cost, The total fuel bill on E-Flex is lower than running pump 98RON Presently under 80c/litre where 98RON is over $1.20/litre (IMHO United Race Fuel is not justified in a N/A H6)

[2] The "Squirt Response". The biggest improvement in performance is in the mid-range where you are typically accelerating through traffic. Say the 2,500-5,500 rpm dash off from the lights or through a gap in the traffic.

[Housemusic1]

On the H6, yes. You will gain a significant amount of torque.[/quote]

So, would you suggest a throttle body upgrade, like Hexmods?

[WIDELOAD]

Hexmods do a Valve Body upgrade for the transmission.

It's not really needed, but does improve drivabilty & gear shifts even in a stock car.

[Swipez]

Do you notice any real power gains with E85 on a NA engine? Obviously they gains are not like a turbo engine on E85, but I'm just wondering if the cost can be justified. Car is modestly tuned right now, will have Raptor Headers, Raptor CAI, and full exhaust in March. E85 is everywhere in my area.

I'm gonna use power @ the crank as an example of the power gains. Stock car has 180kw, if someone like Matt Mcleod gives it an E85 flex tune, he'll do a max power tune once you're at about 80% ethanol in the fuel tank. (that'll be about the max ethanol percentage you'll ever get out of the pump). And he HAS seen figures over 240kw at the crank after tuning on E85. He has achieved these figures on a few people's H6's. So yes, you can achieve HUGE power gains on N/A with an E85 tune. You'll find that the stock tune is pretty darn conservative (and lazy). Matt will tune the stock negatives out of your h6, apply his own values, and will give you much more USEABLE torque (lower rpm torque), Greater outright power, throttle response, and all those good things simply by tuning it. He then has more tuning bandwidth when E85 is introduced. The fuel has a high knock threshold and will allow matt to get even higher power and torque figures throughout the whole rpm range. (Which is what makes a fast Street car). Matt is a God on these cars, 60kw peak gains just from a tune and a different fuel is nuts. And btw, ethanol is cheaper per litre. But NOT cheaper per kilometre. It'll burn 40% faster. Hence why flex fuel tunes are so useful.

And also, don't bother changing ANYTHING other than the fuel pump, and headers. Don't bother with a CAI, do not get bigger injectors, don't waste your money on other crap. It's not needed.

[KiDo_Tuning]

Casula Caltex... 77.7 cents a litre. E85 in Coffs Harbour over double that

[Swipez]

Casula Caltex... 77.7 cents a litre. E85 in Coffs Harbour over double that

Hey matty, that's so freaking cheap. It's $1.25 on the central coast. So in my case, it's more expensive per kilometre than 98.

[dr20t]

33% power increase on an n/a car with a tune. Awesome

Lets contextualise this.

To get from 180 flywheel kw's to 250 on my 2.0 litre turbo (98 fuel), I needed a 6mm larger compressor wheel and 4 more psi plus supporting fuel, intake and exhaust mods to allow this airflow to work.

Granted there's 50% greater capacity to start with on a 3.0 litre. However, assuming static VE, 14.7psi increase over atmospheric will generally double flywheel power.

Working backward, your logic tells me my 2.0 litre ej20x was 100% less efficient in n/a form than the h6. Hmmm.

Or another way to look at it is to say the h6 would make 480 flywheel kw's with 14.7psi of boost

Dunno about you, but haven't seen any turbo or supercharged h6 anywhere in the world make this sort of power - including completely forged and blueprinted big dollar machines.

Not hating on the h6 - love the engine as much as the next man (and infact would love a turbo'd ez30 over my 2.0 litre anyday of the week). But lets call a spade a spade and stop with this keyboard bullshit about making 30% more power on an n/a car from a tune.

[HardwareBoB]

Dunno about you, but haven't seen any turbo or supercharged h6 anywhere in the world make this sort of power - including completely forged and blueprinted big dollar machines.

Not to take away from the rest of your post , but Andy Forrest made over 1000HP out of his h6, but there is honestly there's not a lot of middle range in between your supercharged 200ish kw cars (low 200s seems to be the limit for a standard supercharged h6 - I don't think I've seen many above that) and that custom made monster.

[Swipez]

33% power increase on an n/a car with a tune. Awesome

Lets contextualise this.

To get from 180 flywheel kw's to 250 on my 2.0 litre turbo (98 fuel), I needed a 6mm larger compressor wheel and 4 more psi plus supporting fuel, intake and exhaust mods to allow this airflow to work.

Granted there's 50% greater capacity to start with on a 3.0 litre. However, assuming static VE, 14.7psi increase over atmospheric will generally double flywheel power.

Working backward, your logic tells me my 2.0 litre ej20x was 100% less efficient in n/a form than the h6. Hmmm.

Or another way to look at it is to say the h6 would make 480 flywheel kw's with 14.7psi of boost

Dunno about you, but haven't seen any turbo or supercharged h6 anywhere in the world make this sort of power - including completely forged and blueprinted big dollar machines.

Not hating on the h6 - love the engine as much as the next man (and infact would love a turbo'd ez30 over my 2.0 litre anyday of the week). But lets call a spade a spade and stop with this keyboard bullshit about making 30% more power on an n/a car from a tune.

Thanks for the reply man a well tune H6 with 14.7 psi of boost would probably actually make 480kw at the fly with E85. (if it were obviously built to support that pressure). And I'm only going off what has literally BEEN DONE. There are users on the forum that have had their h6 tuned by Matt on E85 and it has made 240kw at the crank.

[Swipez]

Dunno about you, but haven't seen any turbo or supercharged h6 anywhere in the world make this sort of power - including completely forged and blueprinted big dollar machines.

Not to take away from the rest of your post , but Andy Forrest made over 1000HP out of his h6, but there is honestly there's not a lot of middle range in between your supercharged 200ish kw cars (low 200s seems to be the limit for a standard supercharged h6 - I don't think I've seen many above that) and that custom made monster.

Bolt on water to air raptor supercharger on 10psi pulley, tuned on 98 will make over 300kw at the crank, granted your engine is healthy. An E85 tune can boost this to 330+. It is a beautifully, strange, and sometimes inconsistent engine. But magnificent nevertheless.

[Swipez]

33% power increase on an n/a car with a tune. Awesome

Lets contextualise this.

To get from 180 flywheel kw's to 250 on my 2.0 litre turbo (98 fuel), I needed a 6mm larger compressor wheel and 4 more psi plus supporting fuel, intake and exhaust mods to allow this airflow to work.

Granted there's 50% greater capacity to start with on a 3.0 litre. However, assuming static VE, 14.7psi increase over atmospheric will generally double flywheel power.

Working backward, your logic tells me my 2.0 litre ej20x was 100% less efficient in n/a form than the h6. Hmmm.

Or another way to look at it is to say the h6 would make 480 flywheel kw's with 14.7psi of boost

Dunno about you, but haven't seen any turbo or supercharged h6 anywhere in the world make this sort of power - including completely forged and blueprinted big dollar machines.

Not hating on the h6 - love the engine as much as the next man (and infact would love a turbo'd ez30 over my 2.0 litre anyday of the week). But lets call a spade a spade and stop with this keyboard bullshit about making 30% more power on an n/a car from a tune.

I don't exactly know why you appear to be so offended at this post. But, it's not perfect maths when you talk about making power. It's not bad by any stretch, but a EJ20T ADM liberty is not really that extraordinarily great in its base form. It's not keyboard bullshit mate. It's engine kW. Subaru tune = crap. Custom tune = great + makes more power.
Custom tune + E85 = great + much more power due to the fuel's high knock threshold. It IS doable. And has been done.