Member Profile - Manaz

[shav]

I spoke to the OP of that thread in the link I posted up and he says he hasnt had any issues thus far with his gearbox with the cat being so close. It's definitely a concern, but one would think only if you looking to track the car to the point where the cat heats up and remains severely hot for a prolonged period of time.

That said, would a trans cooler be a better option as Alexei suggested over heat wrapping if preserving the gearbox is the concern?

A transmission cooler is never a bad idea IMHO. If your car has a genuine Subaru tow bar (as part of the dealer-fitted tow pack), you may already have one.

No mine doesnt. It was never fitted with a factory tow bar. That said, I'd like to get one fitted.

[Manaz]

No mine doesnt. It was never fitted with a factory tow bar. That said, I'd like to get one fitted.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Subaru-Fores ... 777&_uhb=1

Certainly looks interesting...

[shav]

No mine doesnt. It was never fitted with a factory tow bar. That said, I'd like to get one fitted.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Subaru-Fores ... 777&_uhb=1

Certainly looks interesting...

Not bad at all, does that come with hoses and clamps etc?

[Manaz]

Not bad at all, does that come with hoses and clamps etc?

I don't believe so. It wouldn't be hard to source those though I don't imagine.

[Manaz]

OK, Troy from PSR just gave me a call. The below is my take-away from the call - if something is wrong, it's probably my understanding that's faulty, not what Troy was saying.

The change that they made for the Australian market is in the very top of the pipe - they changed the design of the "collector" to make sure it clears the steering knuckle (it basically "leans" the other way). The LHD design put the pipe itself further from the gearbox, but caused the collector/pipe itself to foul the steering knuckle (this could in theory be resolved by use of the STI steering knuckle apparently, as it's narrower than the stock one).

The auto version has the cat mounted up high (as per the pictures shown earlier) because they couldn't find a way with the width of the auto box to appropriately position it lower on the dump pipe (the way it is done on the manual version, which has the cat mounted near the rear end of the dump pipe) AND have it neatly fit onto the stock mid-pipe (or a replacement mid-pipe designed to connect at the same point as the stock one). Troy acknowledged that the cat is close to the box, but said he's never had one hit the gearbox, and doesn't believe that there's an issue with heat radiation into the gearbox. I mentioned that I'm going to get it ceramic coated, he said that'd help if I was concerned.

I also talked to Tony @ TCP. He mentioned that they don't specifically make a version of their dump for the auto, but that all that is required to make it fit an auto is to modify it (bend it) slightly once it's been fit to the car so that it doesn't foul the gearbox (but can still meet the stock midpipe). As he designs and builds the dump here, it's suited to RHD cars. He uses a metallic 200 cel cat on his, mounted in the same position as the stock cat (so similar to where Invidia have theirs, though the Invidia cat is a 100cel ).

There is a $200 difference in the purchase price of the two units ($600 for the TCP, $800 for the Invidia). I was hoping to fit my dump pipe (and VF52) myself, which I wouldn't be able to do with the TCP unit, so the cost difference will at least partially be absorbed in installation costs (and the Invidia pipe does have a 100 cel cat instead of 200 cel).

Decisions, decisions...

[shav]

Thats interesting to read Robert.

Basically, the Invidia design had no other choice but to place the cat in that location to clear the gearbox best?

I still think a sheet of self adhesive stick on heat shield on the side of the gearbox isnt a bad idea. But it seems as though you should be able to get away without it if your not throttle heavy.

Cost wise, its about the same. Yes you save more with TCP but you'll probably pay up to $200 to get it modified compared to the Invidia. The downside is the cat is 200cel if that is a concern at all. Pro's for Invidia are better clearance for knuckle, and no modifications all be it cost is more. Does it flow any better? hard to say.

[alexeiwoody]

1. How would PSR know if the cat has ever hit the box...? I can't see any feedback, or test results or photos from tests - just a dump, designed overseas, that sits a bee's dick from touching another component in the engine bay. Troy uses MSR for feedback on most of his products - and MSR uses x force exhausts....

2. How is it that I can have a custom pipe made up to sit very well, but Invidia couldn't make their 'custom CAD designed' pipe be more than 5mm away from the gearbox?

3. The first Invidia dump had steering knuckle clearing problems. It appears that they simply adjusted things for that, without realising it's now causing other issues. A turbo XS dump, which is less than half price of the In-2-close-vidia has less issues.

4. Tbear's name at TCP - is Tony, not Troy I believe I already wrote that the TCP manual pipe needs more than a 'simple' mod to bolt onto an auto. Tony told me a similar story long ago, unfortunately words and estimates didn't help make the pipe not require 2 hours worth of re-welding. The 2nd O2 bung needs to be moved and the mounting bracket needs to be remade. This may be a good reason to seek a discount from Tony for the auto.

5. 100cel is better than 200cel....by a little...so here arises another option. And you'll see why MSR uses x force.

An x force dump is something like $350. MSR mods them to fit a 5eats all the time, and puts in a 100cel cat. And the entire process will surely cost you under $800, saving you time and effort. I'd get a quote from him or at least what the necessary mods are.

X force outflows TCP and Invidia. If you're concerned about 3kw top end.

6. And lastly - are you thinking of spending $130 to reduce dump surface temps by 20-30%, then have it sitting 20-30% closer to the box; possibly banging against the box?

MSR can also stick a splitter into that dump for you, for another 3kw on the vf52...

Hopefully this helps you guys see that Invidia really isn't worth it... (IMO)

[Manaz]

1. How would PSR know if the cat has ever hit the box...? I can't see any feedback, or test results or photos from tests - just a dump, designed overseas, that sits a bee's dick from touching another component in the engine bay. Troy uses MSR for feedback on most of his products - and MSR uses x force exhausts....

MSR told me to go Invidia for an auto postFL Liberty. Maybe that was for something he wasn't fitting himself. Interesting.

2. How is it that I can have a custom pipe made up to sit very well, but Invidia couldn't make their 'custom CAD designed' pipe be more than 5mm away from the gearbox?

I did wonder about that.

3. The first Invidia dump had steering knuckle clearing problems. It appears that they simply adjusted things for that, without realising it's now causing other issues. A turbo XS dump, which is less than half price of the In-2-close-vidia has less issues.

Got details for the Turbo XS option? For curiosity's sake more than anything else.

4. Tbear's name at TCP - is Tony, not Troy I believe I already wrote that the TCP manual pipe needs more than a 'simple' mod to bolt onto an auto. Tony told me a similar story long ago, unfortunately words and estimates didn't help make the pipe not require 2 hours worth of re-welding. The 2nd O2 bung needs to be moved and the mounting bracket needs to be remade. This may be a good reason to seek a discount from Tony for the auto.

Thanks for the correction.

5. 100cel is better than 200cel....by a little...so here arises another option. And you'll see why MSR uses x force.

An x force dump is something like $350. MSR mods them to fit a 5eats all the time, and puts in a 100cel cat. And the entire process will surely cost you under $800, saving you time and effort. I'd get a quote from him or at least what the necessary mods are.

X force outflows TCP and Invidia. If you're concerned about 3kw top end.

6. And lastly - are you thinking of spending $130 to reduce dump surface temps by 20-30%, then have it sitting 20-30% closer to the box; possibly banging against the box?

MSR can also stick a splitter into that dump for you, for another 3kw on the vf52...

Hopefully this helps you guys see that Invidia really isn't worth it... (IMO)

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I might just drop the car to MSR and let him do it.

[alexeiwoody]

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=17473&start=2055

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=25017

Dazz and I suggested the turbo XS dump to Mr Shaheenis a while back, around the time he was considering spending $500-800 on one. Obviously I suggested it first, Dazz just posted the link to an ebay listing. Shaheenis then credited Dazz with the finding, but in reality I take full credit.

Of course, I just stole the idea of MSR who mentioned it was a good dump at one stage

Yep, Michael uses X force, installs a 100 cel cat in them and makes it fit. By the way - good point - he also suggested I go with TCP if I was to fit myself, not X force. Mr kido tuning speculated that MSR likes X force because it lacks the cat and hence flows more. He cautioned me that I'll run the risk of getting fined a few thousand $$ on the spot for emssisons. However this is absolutely not the case, as Mick will install the cat and test the whole pipe for the condition of the flow.

Maybe Bruce can add to that

[shav]

If MSR was close to me I wouldnt be having this conversation either.

Seems like there is pro's and cons with either units, just that it depends on your wallet

[Manaz]

And now just to throw a spanner in the works - Michael South has just told me that he recommended XForce when Invidia didn't have anything that fitted properly, but now they do, and that's what he recommends.

$800 to supply and fit the dump. $200 to fit my turbo at the same time.

Once I get approval from the minister for war and finance, it's getting booked in.

[Newbie GT]

And now just to throw a spanner in the works - Michael South has just told me that he recommended XForce when Invidia didn't have anything that fitted properly, but now they do, and that's what he recommends.

$800 to supply and fit the dump. $200 to fit my turbo at the same time.

Once I get approval from the minister for war and finance, it's getting booked in.

Tune at same time ...

[shav]

And now just to throw a spanner in the works - Michael South has just told me that he recommended XForce when Invidia didn't have anything that fitted properly, but now they do, and that's what he recommends.

$800 to supply and fit the dump. $200 to fit my turbo at the same time.

Once I get approval from the minister for war and finance, it's getting booked in.

win. seems like you have made the right decision

[Manaz]

Tune at same time ...

The tune is dealt with already.

[Manaz]

win. seems like you have made the right decision

For what it's worth shav, Michael South's endorsement of the Invidia solution is enough to put my mind at rest regarding the issues we thought may have existed with the Invidia product. I know he wouldn't advise the fitment of something that would cause issues.