Supercharger Systems -4GEN Liberty/Legacy

Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby MH3.0R » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:10 pm

Tradewind wrote:To be very clear -

The Raptor range of supercharger kits are offered as DIY systems

This means we expect that you as a customer will fit and maintain the system yourself.

In this age workshop rates have become outrageous and that coupled with often below standard work output makes something like adding a supercharger to your car a hideously expensive deal.

DIY or having a friend assist who has mech abilities is the only way to go, avoid the workshop scenario except for when your need a professional tune.

Raptor does not resell any Subaru systems through a reseller in Australia or most parts of the world except for about 6 countries in Europe. It's direct to the customer only -

99% of all Raptor products ever sold have been DIY only


The message is don't SC unless you DIY or you have plenty budget.

Many of my customers have shown that even at backyard levels they outperform 85% of all so called "performance" shops - hence the suggestions above


With the KiDo and XRT tuning options you need never go near a workshop


All well and good in hind sight. But when my DIY skills and workshop tools just cannot meet the needs of the task, what are my choices? Hack at it myself, or professional workshop? There have been many posts over the last two years where I have indicated that professional workshops are doing the install for me and not one comment from you since then about the DIY aspect of your sc kit or your convenient and timely definition.

I think your advice is ill founded Tim and is very dangerous from a quality and safety perspective.

In addition, I was warned off by you in March 2013 for having the sc unit serviced by anyone other than Raptor (no warranty, expensive repairs if something goes wrong, etc) and so I took a decision to fork out the dollars to have the item removed, sent back to you for service. Why are you now saying that it is all supposed to be DIY? That does not make sense and is somewhat contradictory to your earlier advice.

I think professional workshops are a very good option for those of us not having the knowledge, skills, experience and tools. And it is safe, a quality finish is assured and warranty should be intact as all work has been done by professionals.
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby MH3.0R » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:17 pm

And another thing, I just reviewed your own web site and there is no statement about DIY. Here is a copy for the record:

Liberty/Legacy - H6 3.0 - EZ30 Kits
A refined and powerful supercharger option for the Subaru Legacy/Liberty/Tribeca with H6 3.0 Engine. These cars are truly magnificent examples of Subaru engineering and style, now it is possible to significantly enhance the torque and power with a simple bolt on kit. 0-100kmh - Sub 6.0secs even for auto
Suits Legacy,Tribeca and Liberty (3.0 and 3.6) - Globally
This kit has exceptional features that no other manufacturer will ever be able to provide - Get Raptor - Get the Best
ECU TUNE is additional cost - ask about this when you enquire
Email us at: raptorsc@westnet.com.au
This kit ships to all countries of the world
Features
5 second 0-100kmh acceleration even for 3.0 auto - much quicker for manual
Proven Supercharger for use on Subaru vehicles
Reflash ECU - tuning support for customers Globally
Very easy fitment - minimal tools needed
Kit fits under existing engine covers
Completely and easily reversible
Fitment time under 2hrs for professional, a little longer DIY
Will fit all Legacy and Liberty 3.0/3.6 Globally
Parts included
Belt, bracket and drive system for SC kit
Air filter sock for dusty conditions
***Optional silent water cooled supercharger
***Optional Clutch on Supercharger
Raptor V Supercharger
Air Filter - cold air pick up
Plumb back Blow off valve - 32mm
410cc injectors
New MAF meter mount
Drive belt and additional idlers
Prices

Description Eng Kw Wheel KW Psi boost % Power gain Price
H6 3.0 ProStreet SC 265 + 180 - 200 7.5 42%++ $5200


As as 08 July 2013, 3:15 pm

In fact, you suggest under 2 hours for a professional? Why would you suggest that if it is not supposed to be done by a professional?
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby 3rspecb » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:28 pm

Tradewind wrote:Worth a post
Customers with the Raptor Supercharger kit on H6 are really seeing some decent kilometers on their cars
Tribeca in Spain - +50 000km travelled with SC kit (air cooled charger)
Legacy in Bulgaria - +50 000km travelled with SC kit (air cooled charger)
Liberty in Australia (MH) - was 45 000 a good while ago, so saying + 50 000km travelled for that one too
No service or parts was needed
To further add - I do recommend a charger service at around 50 000km tho.
I expect in the future that 7psi non IC systems with liquid cooled charger may only need service every 100 000km


Tim,

You may want to include transmission belt replacement with your charger service, I think owners would be happy to pay to ensure charger longevity.
I have just inspected the transmission belt like you advised and have found some pieces missing from the back of the belt. Email sent with pics.
Mine has travelled nowhere near the above km's :(
Last edited by 3rspecb on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Apart from me being on hols right now I am always around to service or supply parts.

Anyone who needed parts while I have been on hols has been able to easily obtain them as needed.
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:04 pm

OK

Yes I have omitted DIY from these pages as quoted, will adjust that and will update fitting time which I carried over from first page on 3.0 kit
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:32 pm

Updates to pages

Several changes to various line entries
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby MH3.0R » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:03 pm

From the pages I just read on your web site, you have removed the "professional" install part. Personally, I think that is a mistake.
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby SegR » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:29 pm

While I know Mark has had some issues, I think the points he raises are valid and worth consideration.

I've been thinking about going down this path for quite a while but the costs of having someone install it (I don't think I have the skills to do so myself, nor the skills and tools to fab up whatever extra bits I might find I need along the way), the extra maintenance burden when things go wrong and the risk of things breaking (simply more shit under the bonnet which can go wrong, or aging stressed stock bits) mean I'm still edging towards keeping the cash in my second-hand CLA45 AMG fund.

Maybe not everyone thinks of things this way though.
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:01 pm

3rspecb wrote:
Tradewind wrote:Worth a post
Customers with the Raptor Supercharger kit on H6 are really seeing some decent kilometers on their cars
Tribeca in Spain - +50 000km travelled with SC kit (air cooled charger)
Legacy in Bulgaria - +50 000km travelled with SC kit (air cooled charger)
Liberty in Australia (MH) - was 45 000 a good while ago, so saying + 50 000km travelled for that one too
No service or parts was needed
To further add - I do recommend a charger service at around 50 000km tho.
I expect in the future that 7psi non IC systems with liquid cooled charger may only need service every 100 000km


Tim,

You may want to include transmission belt replacement with your charger service, I think owners would be happy to pay to ensure charger longevity.
I have just inspected the transmission belt like you advised and have found some pieces missing from the back of the belt. Email sent with pics.
Mine has travelled nowhere near the above km's :(



G

Yes, the belt is the only reason for a service, it is replaced any time a charger is serviced.


Yes all the units in that list run the 61mm pulley, it will always yield best belt life, slower is better for longest life with any mechanical item.

The 58s are the final small size. Smaller - yes some customers have sourced their own/machined original down are - NOT recommended at all. There are 54mm out there I know!!
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:33 am

MH3.0R wrote:From the pages I just read on your web site, you have removed the "professional" install part. Personally, I think that is a mistake.



MH

The idea is that if they cannot DIY (which they know before they purchase) they will obviously take their car and supercharger kit parcel to whomever (workshop) they believe is best for their needs.

Raptor had been exclusively a DIY type product supplier since day of starting out in 2002. This really suited the Lancer and Commodore customers however I recognize a Liberty owner in many cases is less hands on - working on their car themselves.

Raptor is right behind DIY first and foremost - just so much more affordable

Nevertheless it's all free choice
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:42 am

Further comment of the web pages about the kits which I edited earlier

Customers are buying systems and optioning them left right and crooked (as the saying goes)

The info is the basics and don't be the least bit surprised if you hear of someone who has purchased a system with all kinds of non listed options

Options - billet impeller for SC, anodise colour choices, clutch pulley, high flowed Intercoolers, fuel pumps etc
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby SegR » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:24 pm

Tim what kind of regular or semi-regular maintenance is required on the standard intercooled kit once installed and roughly what costs are involved?

Also is the 11-12psi option something which would generally only be recommended on a modified/strengthened engine?
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:57 pm

SegR wrote:Tim what kind of regular or semi-regular maintenance is required on the standard intercooled kit once installed and roughly what costs are involved?

Also is the 11-12psi option something which would generally only be recommended on a modified/strengthened engine?



Seg

The first thing to consider is that 11psi is 1 more psi than 2 kit owners are currently running. At 10psi it seems the engines and tuners are having no issues producing reliable power. 1psi more is 10% for sure however there is no indication from the enormous amount of logged data by the tuners that another psi can't be accommodated.

Possibilities on applying an 11psi system to a stock H6

The most reliable and simple way - E85 fuel + the 11psi system, that's the most reliable way to add 11psi and not have issues

Fit 11psi system and have a very careful tune done by the experts in H6 tuning to suit your chosen fuel

A centrifugal SC system is only at full boost pressure for a small amount of time - any owner of one will confirm that for you, the high load period is just such a tiny amount of the engines total run time.

Maintainence

Oil changes every 5000km

Don't abuse car

Nothing else comes to mind at this moment
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:52 pm

Keeping in mind that jumping from 10psi to 11psi typically sees 4% more airflow across the whole rev range, so 200Kw@wheels on 10psi becomes 208Kw@wheels on 11psi etc and a 4% gain in torque etc
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Re: Supercharger Systems - H6 Liberty and Legacy

Postby Tradewind » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:08 am

A little special for a bit

Buy the complete non Intercooled SC kit for $4900!! Improve your power and torque for the lowest price ever!


This offer remains until September 30 - 2013.
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