Subwoofer option for mac equipped wagons

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Subwoofer option for mac equipped wagons

Postby 05gtwagonman » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:02 pm

I've been reading in this section for quite some time, looking to see if there is anyone else that has done something similar to me.

I bought the 05 wagon, and being in the audio industry the sound of the mac unit was of great interest to me. I thought, and still do think, that you would have to go to the kind of trouble mo went to with his custom install b4 you would be likely to get a better sound than standard. Also having previously worked for JB HiFi- I know all to well that there are plenty of cashed up guys who threw plently of coin at their systems, with a far less impressive results.

The Mac system is actually very very good at front stage and clarity. THe emphasis on midrange clarity and detail is a thing rarely found in car systems OEM or not.

The only problem I had was the pissy 8" 'woofer' (cause it aint a sub really) in the back. I couldn't hear it until it was clipping and sounding like a dead cat in my dog's jaws :shock:
The answer my friends was found with a 12" JL sub in a JL standard slot port box.
Con: box is big.
Pro: box box = efficient speaker.
Pro: efficient speaker means more DB per Watt.

The mac amp doesn't seem to pack a massive punch, so putting a twin voice coil blah blah- isn't going to work. Scale it back, dumb it down.

I now run my system at 30 on the dial, and it gives me fuuuullll range sound, clean and clear with just enough bottom end to make the interior mirror vibe. :lol:
The sub is only around the $500 mark, the only mod to the car is to pull the 8" out and extend the speaker wires out to the new box...
Can I also recomend buying some tie down straps to go between the two metal D's the seat backs latch to to stop the mutha moving if you drive like I do... :shock:
The whole lot can be returned to original in about 10mins when you feel the need to... The sub pulls out of the load area in seconds.
Cheap flexible and nets a solid result for those not looking to spend big bucks or go the whole hog.
Whiteline rear sway, King lows, Custom quad tip muffs, Subi sport grill, HID's, Boost guage, JL slot port 12" off the standard mac, RB3l 18's ezeflash tune 150.9kw@4w 15psi 36degC...
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Postby simon » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:35 pm

hey mate. i dont have a mac system. but im quite interested with the idea that you pulled out the 8" sub out and put in your other sub. i do have a sub with a box, but i havnt put it in yet coz im under the impression i will have to put in an amp and i dont know how to pull out the stock sub. would you be able to tell me how to take it out myself?
cheers
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Postby 05gtwagonman » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:41 am

I think, but I will stand corrected, that the older standard(on mac) systems did not have a power amp in the system.
What does that mean? If the mac amp is putting out a genuine solid 50w as I suspect, then the head unit on it's own is maybe 20w solid power or less. ( they might claim more but companies can fudge this easily, don't be fooled) CHeck under the passenger seat, the amp should be there if you have one. As i said above, even if you have a factory amp, putting in an ineffecient (these are typical) sub will get you less bass performance if you don't feed it a lot of power.

Home speakers will often quote efficiency in their specs. ie: xdb @ 1w/1m db is how loud watts can somwtimes be quoted as volts (more accurate reresentation) and tested 1meter away from the speaker. A lot of home speakers will quote 88-90db. My educated guess is that a lot of car subs in smallish boxes would come back in the low 70's or high 60's. Remember every 3 db difference sounds half as loud or twice as loud. This is a massive difference that equates to a sub like that being effectivly inaudibile withoin the context of the system you have.

Getting the sub out is simply a case of pulling the trim and undoing 6 screws around the perimieter of the sub cone. Does the standard system have a sub up the back in the load area?

I'd say your solution is a line level converter off the head unit,and a quality 4 channel under the seat, front two to run fresh splits installed, rear two bridged for the sub. Bigish job, much more expensive than what I'm able to do, but I guess I paid a premium for the car including the mac system...
Hope that helps.
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Re: Subwoofer option for mac equipped wagons

Postby chriskan » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:48 am

05gtwagonman wrote:
The answer my friends was found with a 12" JL sub in a JL standard slot port box.
Con: box is big.
Pro: box box = efficient speaker.
Pro: efficient speaker means more DB per Watt.



Rich, which JL model did you end up going with? Might give it a go myself!
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Postby simon » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:03 am

yeah i was told to get a line level converter. think that is the way to go.
n yeah was a big help. cheers
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Postby tangcla » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:12 am

wagonman, what are your thoughts on changing the 8" sub out for something else? I want to retain the stock mounting points.
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Postby chriskan » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:17 am

tangcla wrote:wagonman, what are your thoughts on changing the 8" sub out for something else? I want to retain the stock mounting points.


There's no reason u can keep the stock sub in place, and just put a box with the 10 or 12, and disconnect the stock one?
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Postby tangcla » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:47 pm

I don't want to lose boot space! so I'd just replace the current sub with something better.

Or just spend some money on sound deadening :P
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Postby chriskan » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:22 pm

tangcla wrote:I don't want to lose boot space! so I'd just replace the current sub with something better.

Or just spend some money on sound deadening :P


True.. I forgot about your "cleaning" job.. bodies take space..

you could fit a more efficient 8 and some of those esopheric(sp?) matt things and see if it makes a difference.
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Postby 05gtwagonman » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:26 pm

Chriskan: bb12w1v2 $399 from any JB hifi- ask for a deal...
Clarence,

Nice try with the 8" conversion, it simply won't work that way. It's like unprotected sex and having no kids- that's what we all want, but you'll spend your whole life dreaming it could be true in vein... :wink:

The 8" will only move so much air for so many mm of cone travel. If, say, the standard woofer has 10mm of travel, you would need about 50mm of travel to even come close to the kind of air moved by this jl I've got. To get that movement out of an 8", it would have to be very well re-enforced, and spring action of the rubbers would be very tight, so the power needed to run it would be exponential! That type of sub needs a real 300-500wrms...

I will be down at dream world for an hour or so on Friday Night, the Qld crew can have a listen then if they are interested...

The small enclosure is the bit that kills you. This JL box is about 700mm long 500mm high and 500mm deep. All I can say is that you can take it out and leave it at home very easily if you know you need to carry a big load before you leave home! it won't help if you are already out b4 you know you are taking a big thing home... :(

Adding sound deadener will not increase the volume, it will take out unwanted resonances or distortion. Adding a sealed enclosure behind the sub would help a little (10%?) this JL is like a 2/300% improvement! :twisted:
I have a background in Audio engineering- the JL was tested against 4 other subs that I thought might work at the time, it beat the others hands down- and for $400- you can't beat the value for money. It insn't an Auto salon solution, but you really have to spend a lot more money to beat the sound quality bass response and overall volume...
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Postby tangcla » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:29 pm

I know it won't make it any noisier, my biggest complaint with the Mcintosh system is that the bass sounds muddy - I just want it tighter (as tight as a free-air sub can run :lol: ) definitely not trying to win SPL here with it :D
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Postby 05gtwagonman » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:51 pm

Haven't you got a sedan?
You probably want a low pass filter in reality...
There is nothing to say that you couldn't get a single channel amp screw it up under the parcel shelf run it high level input and put a bigger 8" in the same hole. Most decent amps have a low pass filter built in...
Use the lead to the sub as your input ( a high to low level converter could be used here as well, but they are a little dirty- not so much a problem with a sub) then you just need to get a decent size 12v power source down to it, and a solid earth to the body... Not aalllll that much money or trouble... :?
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Postby tangcla » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:08 pm

Don't really wanna be changing equipment :) so I was thinking, some sound deadening, making sure the screws holding the sub aren't loose :lol: and yes, a lowpass would be nice.

Back when I was into car audio, I used capacitors to act as a highpass filter - can I do anything like that inline to convert the speaker signal as low-pass?
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Postby 05gtwagonman » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:10 pm

I don't want to lose boot space! so I'd just replace the current sub with something better.

Sorry clarance I wondered why I was getting confused... :D
I do understand though, the desire to keep things original.
The short answer is yes! to the DIY LPF... If you know what you are doing it will work. The only problem is; at what freqency do you want to start rolling off. I'd say look aver the net and find a kit you can build for a variable LPF so you sweep it across 200hz to
about 80hz till you get a happy medium. The original sub probably wants a cut off around 140-160 but you need to experiment...
Happy trolling! :wink:
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Postby tangcla » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:20 pm

You're the one with industry experience, surely you'd know :D

I'd say about 140Hz would be a much better option than free-range... :P
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