HELP WITH BUNG CENTRE DIFF!!

[Mount.Liberty]

Hey guys, pretty new to the whole forum thing. My old car was a To***a Co***la and not worth finding forums for. But I am now the proud new owner of a MY02 RX Liberty Wagon, which, if I have done my research correctly over the last 8 hours non-stop forum trawling, has a busted centre diff! An annoying problem that can only really be found after driving a solid 50km at 100km/h to heat the thing up.

Anyone had this problem before? It involves (after the engine heats up) a slight consistent tick at straight speeds and then torque bind/shuddering in the front wheels once driving slowly round the carpark.

Is this the sort of problem I should be getting my car towed home for or it's alright to drive?

Any idea on parts to buy? Whether I should just look at the viscous centre or replace the whole diff?
Or maybe (hopefully) a thorough fluid replacement?

Help's much appreciated!

[sheppo9]

Sounds like the right symptoms of a stuffed centre diff/viscous coupling. Can't just change the g/box oil as the diff is a sealed unit.
A new one is around the $1400 mark + a gasket, g/box oil and a couple hours labour.
Or, you could take it to a g/box specialist (i.e someone who actually knows what they are doing) and get them to take the centre diff out, pull it apart and fill it up with Toyota silicone fluid and reinstall and see what happens - that should be $400 or so to do that.

[Mount.Liberty]

Sounds like the right symptoms of a stuffed centre diff/viscous coupling. Can't just change the g/box oil as the diff is a sealed unit.
A new one is around the $1400 mark + a gasket, g/box oil and a couple hours labour.
Or, you could take it to a g/box specialist (i.e someone who actually knows what they are doing) and get them to take the centre diff out, pull it apart and fill it up with Toyota silicone fluid and reinstall and see what happens - that should be $400 or so to do that.

Thanks heaps!
Yeah I was going to do a change of all oils and fluids anyway, just wondering if that would help/fix any problem.
$1400! Is that for a genuine subaru one? Or just aftermarket?
How beneficial would taking it to a specialist be? I have doubts that this will FIX the problem, but rather just mask it for a period of time. Do you have any idea of that period of time (200km? 2000? 2km?) I think if there's already been clunking, hence why I can describe it, there would be some permanent damage to the viscous coupling.

Thanks again Sheppo!

[Robbks]

yep your VC is rooted.
$1400 is for a genuine factory item.

these are a very common failure in the gen3 NA's.

i had the same thing happen to my 3.0 6 Speed.
A local trans specialist has modified mine to remove the standatd VC unit and replace with a solid section that mimics the operation of the VC unit
I haven't noticed any driveability issues so far (wet gravel, wet roads, hard launches, etc)
he's modified around 50odd 5speeds in this exact way and mine was the first 6speed he's done.

[Mount.Liberty]

yep your VC is rooted.
$1400 is for a genuine factory item.

these are a very common failure in the gen3 NA's.

i had the same thing happen to my 3.0 6 Speed.
A local trans specialist has modified mine to remove the standatd VC unit and replace with a solid section that mimics the operation of the VC unit
I haven't noticed any driveability issues so far (wet gravel, wet roads, hard launches, etc)
he's modified around 50odd 5speeds in this exact way and mine was the first 6speed he's done.

Yeah thought so! So it would be about $2000 if I was to get Subaru to do it for me with new genuine part.
How does he replace VC with a solid section? Is that an aftermarket part or straight from another car. How much did this cost you? I really wanna get this done soonish if I can, and if that job isn't too complicated, without having to pay for someone else's labour!
Also, cars on a ramps at the moment but is it going to completely screw my tranny or drivetrain if I take it for short drives here and there?

[infra]

I have the same problem with my MY02 RX sedan. I've been driving it for short trips now for a few months without any noticeable damage. Driving to work is about 30km's and it cools down during the day for the return trip. Any continuous driving and the problem becomes worse. I've been trying to find a cheap replacement part but everyone seems to want to sell me either a full gearbox or a $1500 part. I have a guide I found on the internet about how to replace it yourself. It gives step by step instructions and for an amateur he reckons it took him about 4 hours to do.

Please keep us posted about how you go since I'm very interested to see how you solve this problem

Cheers

[Robbks]

As far as the solid section works, i'm sketchy on exact details
but from a conversation with the guy who did mine i believe it removes the Viscous coupling, replaces it with a solid "donut" which acts on the sun-gears and output shaft via the standard thrust washers to mimic the operation of the VC unit.

Call Phil, have a chat and ask him how much to send you one
Clutch & Transmission Services
76 Derwent Park Rd
Derwent ParkTAS7009

mine was a warranty replacement so it didn;t cost me anything

but as far as driving goes, i have no issues with spinning of one wheel only (that you'd get with a completely open centre diff)
no clunking/ binding, etc
he's done heaps and heaps of these and was a custom part he developed for this exact problem

[Mount.Liberty]

UPDATE!!!

Went to All Drive Subaroo at Peakhurst, NSW, I got a whole bunch of things done.

1) completely change transfer case (including VC, bearings etc) with a re-con super-seeded model that does what Robbks was describing but it's meant to be alot more reliable and you can pull it apart to work on it in the distant future.

2) the mechanic wad expecting to see the circlip on the face of the VC to be off and rubbing on gears, causing the ticking that I had when driving at ANY speed after 30mins of driving. However it was perfectly intact, hence the mechanic reasoning there be something wrong inside the gearbox. I had two options to either put only new transfer case on and hope that the noise goes away, OR pay for the labour to take the tranny out, open it up and have a look. I went with 2nd option and we found a bearing that was screwed (clutch release bearing). The difference in price between replacing the bearings, cleaning my tranny and putting it back in (with 3 months warranty) was only ~$250 cheaper than going with a completely reconditioned tranny put in (with 12 months warranty!!). I went with the re-con.

3) once tranny was off, clutch was revealed and it didn't look great (as is the case with MOST dual mass flywheels after about 150000kms. So I asked for this to br replaced with the solid plate flywheel and new pressure and clutch plates. This was about $775.

All up, including GST, labour, oil, parts etc cost me $3400. Bit steep from the original $1600 quote for new transfer case, but at least I should be able to drive it scot free for a good while. I wouldn't go straight into paying this to get everything done. I was near by the shop when they were doing it so I looked at the parts from every stage to make calls on what I want them to do next.

As far as DIY goes, i'd be comfortable with doing the transfer case and VC and everything, because this can be removed with the tranny in the car, although you will need to do alot of research with what silicone fluid to use and how to seal it because this is very important.


Hope this has been helpful to people. Make sure you have a bit of cash before you start, because one thing leads to another with ANYTHING tranny related.

[Robbks]

yeah, anytime you pull out the trans you may aswell stick a new clutch in it.

which fell right into place for me
i bought my car knowing it needed a new clutch
the tranny issue was all paid for under dealer warranty and as such this included all labour for removal and re-fit of the clutch, so i only had to cough up for the clutch kit itself

[infra]

I rang Phil as suggested earlier in this thread.
He told me the insert he makes needs to be fitted to your particular transmission otherwise it may develop a rattle.
He suggests that I need to find someone to machine it down to size to fit properly. The insert part would cost about $100 and I'd need it shipped over to WA.
Once fitted its just simply put back together.

I'm not sure exactly sure who to find to 'fit' and machine the part to fit so I'm a bit hesitant to just order the part and get it here and not know what to do with it.

Anyone got any advice on where to go to get this part fitted?

[Robbks]

I rang Phil as suggested earlier in this thread.
He told me the insert he makes needs to be fitted to your particular transmission otherwise it may develop a rattle.
He suggests that I need to find someone to machine it down to size to fit properly. The insert part would cost about $100 and I'd need it shipped over to WA.
Once fitted its just simply put back together.

I'm not sure exactly sure who to find to 'fit' and machine the part to fit so I'm a bit hesitant to just order the part and get it here and not know what to do with it.

Anyone got any advice on where to go to get this part fitted?

Talk to doug at STechnic
http://www.stechnic.com.au/

HUGELY knowledgible with subies, although he may be in Coffs this week for RallyOz

[infra]

Well I went to Stechnic after a quote and had a second hand part fitted and installed for $700.
Seemed like the easiest and cheapest option.

Thanks for the contact information!

[Robbks]

Well I went to Stechnic after a quote and had a second hand part fitted and installed for $700.
Seemed like the easiest and cheapest option.

Thanks for the contact information!

no worries
$500 of that would have been the centre diff itself (going rate for low KM used part)
then two hours labour and some fluid, etc.
Plus Doug would have had a look at everything else under there for you too.

[morbo1980]

I've had the same issue for a while and I've been putting off getting something done about it because of the cost. Same symptoms, after driving for 20 mins or more I get binding and wheel skipping on tight turns. Car is an MY07 GTB 6MT sedan with about 105000km.

Can anyone recommend a subaru/transmission specialist in Melbourne (I'm in Faifield)?

Thanks.

[kiks]

are you in brisbane?

I have a spare 5 speed box and matching rear diff that will bolt straight in. $500 bucks. Its currently in my gen3 liberty and all works fine.