E85 Caltex rollout

[coyote]

Funny that while the RACQ complain that 5% ethanol is too much, we are complaining that 70% is too little.

I'd say Caltex are just leaving their options open in case they find something cheaper than ethanol to make up the mix. Rest assured, they will be mixing it with the shittiest fuel they can find, not 98.

[smythie]

Comments from industry in-the-knows:

United E85 is made by CSR from molasses waste, approx 104 ron
Powerplus E85 is made from grain alcohol, much better starting point, approx 106 RON

Powerplus E85 will not have a 'winter' mix so to speak. It's just not required here in Australia, doesn't get cold enough. As E85 burns approx 40degrees less than petrol, which will affect spark plug heat ranges
Also depends on the ECU being run. Usually there should be enough cold start configuration available for it to be fairly well sorted.

Caltex deciding to run variable amounts of ethanol is a bit concerning as most people converting most likely won't be going for flex-fuel style setup, ie an ECU that can handle varying amounts of ethanol. So yeah, i guess you would have to cater for the lowest ethanol content, which is a bit crappy.

The powerplus E85 is a better product than United's and has been confirmed they won't change the ratio throughout the year, which makes it the pick if it becomes more widely available. But good on Caltex for getting it started.

Some exciting projects to happen in Vic as well with ethanol to be produced from household waste. Possibility of becoming a VERY green fuel, should be great

Interesting

[blacktop™]

Does anyone know how much a barrel of e85 costs? Is it cheaper than a barrel of 98?

[teK--]

They'd have to set up a pretty good public education campaign to help the takeup, after all the bad publicity ethanol has received over the recent decade.

But yeah if the pros outweigh the cons and doesn't increase maintenance costs dramatically then I'd definitely be up for trying an eco fuel whether it gives moar powah or not

[Ric]

Does anyone know how much a barrel of e85 costs? Is it cheaper than a barrel of 98?

Before, or after tax is added?

The primary reason ethanol is cheaper than petrol is because it is taxed less!

[drndrn]

Sorry to bring up a dead thread, but was reading on LegacyGT, that someone was able to tune his 2.5i to run E85 and acheived more power (yes yes I know, another NA guy looking for more power) and it got me thinking, if you were to modify and tune your car to run E85, could you still safely run regular 98RON fuel as well? The reason I ask is, I tend to go on long trips several times a year and I know E85 isn't widely available in rural areas, so if I had to fill up using regular unleaded, would I run the risk of doing damage to the engine?

[coyote]

I almost always have my netbook in the car with me. Do the same and flashing back to a low octane map takes a matter of seconds.

Want to buy a set of GT injectors?

[Ric]

Couldn't you tune "S" mode for E85, and "I" mode for regular fuel?

[drndrn]

I almost always have my netbook in the car with me. Do the same and flashing back to a low octane map takes a matter of seconds.

Want to buy a set of GT injectors?

How much more do the GT's injectors flow? The guy on LGT ran 750cc/min injectors.

I may be interested once I find a tuner and weigh up weather or not it's worth it.

What other hardware is involved? I've heard some say you'll need to change seals/lines etc etc, while others disagree. Again the LGT guy did no such upgrades of other hardware other than his injectors and tuned using openport. Anyone know of any melbourne workshops able to help me out with the conversion.

[coyote]

Couldn't you tune "S" mode for E85, and "I" mode for regular fuel?

The only way he'll get more power out of his 2.5 is more timing, so with timing optimised for 105RON, it will ping on 98RON.

Besides, he doesn't have SI Drive.

[coyote]

How much more do the GT's injectors flow? The guy on LGT ran 750cc/min injectors.

I may be interested once I find a tuner and weigh up weather or not it's worth it.

What other hardware is involved? I've heard some say you'll need to change seals/lines etc etc, while others disagree. Again the LGT guy did no such upgrades of other hardware other than his injectors and tuned using openport. Anyone know of any melbourne workshops able to help me out with the conversion.

GT injectors are 550-560cc. I don't know how much bigger that is than yours, but they would be more than big enough. If you can get even close to maxing them out, I'd buy them back, plus give you a carton of beer.

Tune it yourself. Buy my injectors and I'll help you.

The only thing would be to ensure your fuel pump can flow enough volume. If not, I'll sell you a GT fuel pump as well .. and it'll flow way more than you'll ever need.

[drndrn]

Couldn't you tune "S" mode for E85, and "I" mode for regular fuel?

The only way he'll get more power out of his 2.5 is more timing, so with timing optimised for 105RON, it will ping on 98RON.

Besides, he doesn't have SI Drive.

So, with your netbook in the car solution, i'd assume i'd still be able to do it, providing I make sure I switch maps (which includes timing)?

I like the sound of the 'green-ness' of E85 and the prospect of a little more power. But the fuel efficiency is shocking, apparently only getting about 50-60% of the milage you'd get from normal unleaded petrol. So with me having uni about 100km's out of melbourne (Geelong), i'd have to ensure my tank is always full before I leave the house. And things would be even worse if I were to go for a camping holiday like I do at the end of each year.

Coyote, I wouldn't know where to start when it comes to tuning it myself. Not to mention the fear of blowing up my motor!

Any rough indication of what would be needed? As in hardware (cables etc etc) and software and how it would be done? Would it be similar to how west_minist tunes remotely using logs recorded from driving? Have you yourself done this sort of stuff or are you planning to do so to your lib as well?

[coyote]

I'm sure West_Minst could tune it for you if you don't want to do it yourself.

And while the mileage will drop, it may drop by 20% ... possibly up to 30% in the worst case (but I doubt it) ... but not 50%.

[drndrn]

I'm sure West_Minst could tune it for you if you don't want to do it yourself.

And while the mileage will drop, it may drop by 20% ... possibly up to 30% in the worst case (but I doubt it) ... but not 50%.

That's definitely reassuring to hear.

What I meant was, is the process the same? As in, drive the car a certain way to log numbers etc etc. Then come back with the data to tune then repeat and refine?

[coyote]

What I meant was, is the process the same? As in, drive the car a certain way to log numbers etc etc. Then come back with the data to tune then repeat and refine?

The process would be identical, you'd just be aiming for a different AFR and would be tuning timing for max power rather than knock ... because it just won't knock. No boost would make it a lot simpler.

Best to ask whoever would be tuning it what their approach would be though.