Overheating & Head Gasket (confirmed head gasket)

Posts specific to the 3.0 litre NA H6 engine

Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby MH3.0R » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:40 am

Here is a sample snapshot of the overtemp I got on the way to work on Friday morning. Outside temp was 23 degrees C.

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The normal run into work, temp sits around 91-94. Hit the start/stop section on the Monash at about Warrigul Road and within a few minutes, the temp climbed to 105 degrees C. Still not in the red zone and just short of the last white notch.

Checked the fans last night as I pulled into the garage. Temp was 95 and both fans were on, so should be ok. Am I seeing something that is not really a problem. :oops: Paranoia?

I have the log that also goes with this, but don't know how to upload this, so you can PM with an email address and I will send it directly.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby BlackFlatSix05 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:54 am

Just a suggestion. Have a read here https://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/prod ... cts_id=162 I'm not even sure if N/A 3.0 uses the same type of thermostat. More than likely the same but don't quote me.

A lot cheaper than a head job in either sense of the word. :D
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby MH3.0R » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:18 am

Thanks for the link BlackFlatSix05. Had a look and the concept sounds good for the failure mode. I guess you can "diagnose" a failure by the time it takes to get up to normal temperature.

Someone mentioned previously that the temperature guage in the Liberty's, as displayed, is not linear and is aligned to amplify the 85 - 105 range. I think I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill as I have not yet seen the temp in the red zone. The coolant will not boil at this temp when it is under pressure.

Nonetheless, curious about the "bump" in temp prior to retuning to normal.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby MH3.0R » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:38 pm

Latest Update.

Took the car to a local automotive works (Peerless Automotive & Electrical) and within 30 minutes they diagnosed a blockage in the radiator core and/or engine. Most likely due to an additive that has been used in the coolant. I do recall about one year ago, adding the Redline Water Wetter additive and have not given it a second thought since. They noticed some black globules flowing within the coolant and also saw evidence of the radiator "sweating" near the top tank opening.

They indicated that at highway speeds, there is enough pressure from teh water pump to push all the globules through the core and maintain the constant temp (at around 91 to 94), but after entering the start/stop 60Kph areas, some of the engine idle water pressures may be insufficient to maintain the flow. This explanation is reasonably consistent with what I am seeing, although they qualify themselves by saying they could not rule out head gasket problems, but would need to do this anyway as a first step.

So they advised:
1. remove the radiator and send it off to a specialist for assessment (flush, repair or replace).
2. replace Thermostat, hoses and flush engine (while the radiator is being assessed).
Should be at least two days off the road.

I think I will request they:
a. replace the radiator, (with a largest one that will fit)
b. also add a solid aluminium overflow tank to replace the standard plastic one,
c. new higher pressure rated hoses/clamps to run at 1.3 bar instead of the standard 1.0 bar (nice blue silicone),
d. new radiator cap (1.3 bar), and
e. new thermostat (with a "fail open" mode).

Any comments on my shopping list? Sort of like a little "necessary" mod. :) At least that is how I explain it to the missus. :wink:
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby BlackFlatSix05 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:31 am

Why not just flush it yourself and see if it fixes the problem before spending all that $$$ if it turns out to be the head gasket. Water and coolant is cheap.

Having said that though I think I was charged $11 per litre for genuine Subaru coolant. You could use a cheaper alternative if it's only going to be a short term trial I suppose.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby smythie » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:23 pm

a)I would ask the Qld guys who drive their cars hard for extended periods before doing a radiator upgrade. GT and 3R experiences will correlate IMO.
b)An aluminium expansion tank? What benefit is that going to provide? It will only make it harder for you to check coolant levels IMO. Bit of bling though
c&d)Not a bad mod but is it going to provide much benefit in your intended use? Nice bling though
e)Good idea.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby vp920b » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:21 pm

Hi mark,

I think I got the same problem like you(mine 2.5L 2004). If I drive slowly, the car was fine, but in idle, it will increase the temp until the maximum temp gauge.

I was changed my thermostat and also my both fan.

Check on your fan, since my fan was dead if in Idle and turn on when it's run.

Thanks
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby MH3.0R » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:49 pm

Thanks Naldo,

I have checked both fans and they do come on at the correct temps. The recent diagnosis from Peerless Automotive is the additive (Redline Water Wetter) mixed with the Subaru coolant has create some globules that can cause a blockage at low engine revs (stop/start traffic). At highway speeds all is ok.

I proved that theory again tonight when after driving the Monash from the City to the Sth Gipps Hwy, all was ok until I got to a 60 kph section and then drove through a takeaway joint. Noticed both fans on at the drive thru window and then saw the temp up near the last white marker, but not in the red zone, around 105 degrees.

When I left the drive thru, I used heavy throttle and within less than one minute, the engine temp came back to normal and within 5 mins was at 92 degrees. Driving into the garage at home, both fans were off.

Going in to flush the old coolant from the radiator and engine, replace the thermostat while I am there and I will see what difference that makes before going any further.

Kind Regards,

Mark.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby smythie » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:55 pm

Sounds like a good plan to me. Probably don't need to replace the thermostat but if it isn't going to cost much...
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby MH3.0R » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:18 pm

Update - Did the Cooling System flush (including engine and heater unit) and had the Radiator removed and chemically cleaned, inspected (removed top and bottom tanks, flushed core) and pressure test of the system when re-assembled. All reasonably priced and done by STi@ Docklands ($350). Also supplied my own Thermostat, a Grimmspeed 160 degree Subaru version (commonly used by the WRX fraternity). The unique property of the Grimmspeed Thermostat is that when it fails, it fails in the open mode. Most standard Thermostats fail in the closed mode. The $70 is a worthwhile investment in my opinion. Can get these from Tuspeed in Sydney Road Coburg. (P.S. If you are mod hungry, don't go into his shop, he has everthing on display and you will be drooling for hours :) ).

The verdict, you ask? Well it is too early to call just yet, but no sign of over temp on the way home today, even after hitting the stop / start section on the Monash. I will give it a good test over the rest of the week and over the long weekend.

Kind Regards,

Mark.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby smythie » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:08 pm

good stuff. It feels strange wishing someone a week of sweltering weather :?
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby PHAT GT » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:31 pm

can i ask what radiator caps you are using ????


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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby MH3.0R » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:20 pm

Michael,

I am using a standard radiator cap as I have only standard hoses and fittings.

Kind Regards,

Mark.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby PHAT GT » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:09 pm

MH3.0R wrote:Michael,

I am using a standard radiator cap as I have only standard hoses and fittings.

Kind Regards,

Mark.



Mark check that you have the lower rated cap at the top and the higher rated one on the radiator

only reasion i bring this up is i have seen a few guys here is SYD with over heating problems because they had to caps the wrong way round or two STI caps fitted (big NO NO) as STI only makes one pressure rated cap and the Libertys need two types 1.1 top & 1.3 radiator (or whatever the factory one are 108-127 ??)

some work shops would'nt even pick this up and slug you for a big fix

Michael


Sorry i take that back (not paying attention) the 3.0R only use one cap unlike the 2.0T and 2.5T Liberty's that have two
Last edited by PHAT GT on Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Overheating & Head Gasket

Postby teK-- » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:12 pm

Damn Redline... First it's sludging from their Shockproof gear oil. Now globules from Water Wetter. I was considering using both products until I read of such issues.

I just stick with Castrol gear oil and genuine Subaru coolant with no additives. Interesting thing is that in USA Subaru recommend use of what is effectively a head gasket sealant, every time you change the coolant!

Glad to hear you seem to have sorted it out though; I've been in enough overheating cars to agree it is not fun.
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