Hey! 04GT

[Apex]

Hey everyone!

04 Lib GT Auto here!

Been a huge fan of the 4GEN since I was a teenager. Mum had an 06.

Came across this bewt at 80,000k. Seemed like a great buy at lower K's than the rest of carsales
Spun rod 2 months later


Got it rebuilt with forged bits in the end. While it was in pieces I noticed there was basically no play in the turbo, but tiny curls on the end of the blades.
Found a cheap FL set online when I had a ding a few years ago. (always been a mega fan of the 08 spec B look)

Very reliable ride. I haven't had a problem since it was rebuilt.
Also does well with the "light tune" it got. not sure what kw.


Signing up here to hopefully get some guidance on how to get more power. I have run into a few brick walls with regard to downpipes & space for a turbo replacement.

Am also keen to see if there are any gatherings.

cheers!

[Yowie]

Welcome. I'm also a fan of the Gen 4 GT - such a great looking car.

When you get a chance, feel free to post more details & pictures of the work done to the car & engine so far.

[Ric]

Welcome

Am also keen to see if there are any gatherings.

It might help to mention what state/city you're in!

[Apex]

hey hey!

I'm in Sydney's north shore. But you will often see me up the central coast too.
I try to get to Old Pac at least one Sunday a month.

List of work:
- K&N filter
- Strut Bar
-Wastegate Actuator for VF38@15: (pretty sure it's this) https://cartoys.com.au/product/avoturbo ... -2003-2009
-Engine rebuild with forged pistons / heads & a light tune ~30K ago (was told to get an exhaust before it could be tuned properly)
-Pedders Lowered Springs
-DBA T2 Slotted Rotors
-Avid AV-06 https://www.avid1wheels.com/wheel-model ... atte-black
-Pirelli Dragon 235/40/18 (Rear guards were rolled to fit this)


Cosmetics:
2008 Spec B Bumper, Fenders & HID Headlights
Ultrex rear diffuser: https://www.ultrex.com.au/subaru-libert ... s-diffuser
VVS Splitter https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/154069217082
Spats / "Valance" kit from an ebay wrecker in Malaysia https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/224317954225
HIC Weather shields https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/273733206707
Water Spray Nozzle Cover https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/254403451359 (I originally had to 3d print washer covers when we could only get them from the UAE for like 120 bucks)
Mud Flaps from AutoOne
Home Made Grill. Cut the centerpiece out & screwed the exterior over the mesh wire. then sprayed it.

[Stifull]

Hi and welcome aboard. I agree that the Gen 4 is also my favorite looking Lib GT. You are off to a good start with the mods already done. What sort of power do you want to achieve. If you have built the engine with forged internals you must have some king of performance level in mind. Mine is also an auto and I bought my particular Lib because the previous owner had already done a LOT of things and had spent $6-7k on Tein coilovers, sti grill, front lip, rear spoiler, much better quality head unit and speakers and amps and sub, very nice 9x18" Rota wheels RE003 tyres, slotted rotors and good pads and all in beautiful condition and he had already bought a new BRZ and just wanted it gone. I offered him $8k and he accepted that. I also still have a couple of WRXs and wasn't at all happy with it's performance but unlike your car I was dealing with a stock block but fortunately the dodgy head gaskets that were a problem in this model had not long been replaced. My goal was 180kwts on minimum boost so I would have good power that was going to last. My blue rex makes 180 on 16lb and has been for 10 years so that was my goal. Here is a link to my build thread, but as I said, you are probably aiming for bigger numbers and running higher boost. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=36846 .. If nothing else there may be some part numbers etc there that will assist you with your build. Cheers.

[Apex]

I am still trying to figure out what exactly this is capable of really, I rebuilt it with forged internals to prepare it for whatever... I also read somewhere that these come with a forged crank & iron sleeves?
A lot of threads that go up about getting more power out of these focus on the turbo. I'm looking for other methods of squeezing power out of this rebuild like a decent cam. There are also a couple threads about fuel injectors doing good work.
That being said, I am down to fit a decent turbo on this but there seems to be a lot of limits with the VF38 & space to put a bigger one in.
I would also like the boxer grumble through 3"

Each mechanic I go to has different approaches / opinions on what to do with this car too. So finding as many people here with this model & seeing what they did is going to help.
Starting with your thread! thanks!

[Stifull]

There isn't the same range of reasonably priced IHI turbos that can fit on this model because the intercooler bolts straight onto the turbo. I chose the easiest option which is a VF52. They are quite a bit bigger than the stock turbo as you can see in one of the photos in my build thread. if a VF 52 isn't big enough for your needs then you have to start looking at Garrett etc and they are more expensive and as you say, you need to support a bigger turbo with getting a lot of air in quickly and having a good downpipe and exhaust.

[bigBADbenny]

Welcome!

Absolutely all the info you require can be found on this forum.

Bear in mind your car is a prefl with jdm type legacy GT twinscroll, meaning the dump, headers and uppipe, tmic and inlet are unique to that model, and the jdm legacy GT’s.

If you’re looking to explore power upgrades without blowing up again, I’d advise looking into Btssm or Romraider data logging for keeping track of your state of tune.

Prefl 03-06 liberty turbo

The headers and dump are specific to ADM & JDM td04hla w/ 5mt and vf38 w/ 4eat.

The header primaries are somewhat smaller in diameter than JDM STi TS headers, but are said to be able to support around 330whp 250wkw.

The td04hla exhaust housing is around 7cm2...

It can be upgraded to vf34 chra and compressor cover, aka vf38/34 hybrid, but this is not a huge power mod and the compressor outlet will not suit the stock tmic.

Vf38 is considered as junk by some, basically due to the small chra according to Rose Rage (on FB)

Rose Rage Turbos in Australia can upgrade the stock td04hla with a billet compressor wheel allowing the turbo to hold more boost to redline.

Hybrid turbos were a thing back in the day eg vf38/43 etc see GCG turbos et al.

Td04hla can be upgraded to Kando or kinugawa td04hla 20t which has an 8.5cm2 exhaust housing iirc, and these turbos are said to hold moderate boost to redline and around 260whp which is reasonably close to what the stock auto and 5mt can reliably handle.

With a small amount of porting on the stock td04hla exhaust housing, it’s possible, according to Stav Tech, to fit the chra and compressor of an HE221W, which is said to be good for early spool and 380hp, although to my knowledge no one has tried this mod yet.

Of course you can go a different way with custom header & dump flange mods...

AVO make auto and manual 3” dumps with interchangeable cast bell mouths for LGT TS, JDM STi TS and subaru single scroll.

If you’re bouncing back from blowing a turbo, be aware of these important considerations regarding the causes: Blown turbo diagnosis • club.liberty.asn.au

[Yowie]

In terms of power-adder options, some chat about the pros & cons of switching to an E85-fuelled setup is on this page:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36234&start=30

I'm not trying to recruit to the E85 cult - the decision comes down to factors most relevant to the car's owner.

[bigBADbenny]

Since it’s an auto, the box might be a limiting factor.

So a Kinugawa td04hla-20t upgrade and supporting mods might be the go, with or without e85 for around 200-220wkw.

The autos are grouse with a stockish tuned setup, the softening effect of the torque converter even suits a peaky tune and lightswitch delivery.

[Apex]

I am considering replacing the VF38 internal. I like the twin scroll & low rpm boost.

The #1 issue of course is the Downpipe... Tones of threads / Blogs about how the stock downpipe is a major bottleneck.
Every mechanic I have gone to has either said they will weld one together or that none exist.

It looks like AVO have a set from another thread.

Here's the 3" pipe https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/3-s ... 04-06.html
I assume I will also need the housing https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/cas ... 04hla.html

Has anyone fit these to their car? I have been looking for a 3" turboback solution for a while...

TD04 is probably the second option reading what has been posted so far.

it's probably a big ask for a Daily drive, but I would like 250.

[bigBADbenny]

Yes avo have the lgt TS bell mouth and different dumps for auto and manual cars.

I can’t recall anyone with 250wkw on a td04hla-19 or 20t.

Its potentially doable on e85?

Either way modding, tuning for numbers… it’s a bit cart before horse really.

So you’d be more inclined to build big then detune than say push a small setup to the limits just for numbers…

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32118#p425862

[Yowie]

A general comment/opinion on power goals:

A 2 litre with a twin-scroll turbo is (and/or is going to be with sensible modifications) a great, responsive, fun street car. The owner of a Brisbane northside tuning workshop owns/owned one in relatively stock form and loves it. Apparently a surprising number of tuning workshop owners have relatively stock performance cars for their own daily driven vehicles.

There will be modifications that let you efficiently optimise the car to improve power without materially affecting responsiveness or reliability. Sorting a dump pipe and other choke points is part of that.

But, going for an arbitrary power figure (do you mean 250hp or KW? at the wheels or flywheel?) might tip things towards "big single-scroll turbo" with the accompanying cost in parts, project pain, reliability and a loss of responsiveness that comes when the turbo and 2 litre engine combination is designed to only start making boost above (eg.) 4000 rpm. Not my cup of tea for a daily driven car.

You have an advantage in terms of forged internals being likely to handle more than "safe for stock" boost levels if you go down the big turbo path, but perhaps weigh up the benefits of "an awesome car with a fun torque curve" before throwing bulk dollars at a "peak power" project.

Alternatively, for peak power sell the Liberty and get an XR6 Turbo sedan, then turn up the wick on that for a real power weapon (but a fundamentally different car). Hotting-up 4 litres in a cast iron block gives you better value for money than with 2 litres in a structurally weak alloy block.

Anyway, just some thoughts. We each muck around with car stuff for our own reasons and yours are as valid as anyone else's.

[Apex]

Yeah you raise a few of my favorite features about this car, Yowie
This is indeed a very responsive daily, I am able to move between cars and power through corners with ease in the current configuration. If I focus on power and lose that responsiveness it will be a bad outcome.

I cant buy a ford tho, this is a Holden family. the extended family have had a multi generational Holden vs Ford battle that peaks around Bathurst time
The fiancé's VE SSV had a racing cam in it for a while, so that takes care of the straight line speed fix. My car was always meant for corners / zipping around the city.


bigBADbenny, thanks for that thread.

[Yowie]

haha, sorry about the Ford slur. Looks like you're sorted on a similar path with the LS-powered Commodore.

I bl00dy love the effortless torque of the "small/mid" responsive turbo too. After a Dirt Track Day or a drive through the twisty mountain roads I wonder if a bigger-but-less-responsive turbo would put the same smile on my face. Nominally I have "only" 180kw on tap (VF46, 2.5 litres, E85), but I'm hardly ever revving the car out to that point because the job at hand is done with the strong midrange.

[I currently have a very general eye on a bigger turbo in the VF52-sized ballpark which should only affect responsiveness by a few hundred revs but not choke so much at the top end.]

I reckon every car has a "sweet spot" where the easier modifications are paying off BUT the next increment up requires a big spend. Eg for an LS "hot cam, better exhaust and a tune then call it a day" seems to be that sweet spot. For Subarus, "dump pipe, slightly bigger turbo (maybe) and tune" seems to be it. I'm on the fence about whether E85 makes the cut as an "easy" mod.