G'day, potential GT purchase

[Lane]

G'day everyone!

Chris here, currently drive a cammed and modded VZ SS ute but am in the market for a family car as we have a baby on the way. I am not really a V8 man, I started out in jap screamers and turbos of various models back in the 90's and 00's, then ended up with various company vehicles for many years so turned my passion for speed to motorbikes, the ute was merely a mule to take bikes to the race track.

Being a keen surfer and skier a wagon will be on the cards and as of a couple of days ago I had the list whittled down to a liberty GT wagon, VE SS wagon or a VW Passat R36 but I'm 90% sure I will go with the Liberty, I have missed the rush of boost for the last 10 years. Whether I go for the gen 4 or gen 5 is another question but as I've already noticed that has already stirred up enough debate in the past here so don't want to turn my intro into a 4 vs 5 debate, It will depend on how much I get for my ute, what is available at the time of purchase and what I feel based on a test drive or three.

Not looking for stupid numbers but keen for a bit more poke to keep me entertained when there's no kids in the back, when I'm in the mood I have 135kw coupled with only 180kgs to keep me entertained!
Anyone into speed should experience the sheer violence of a modern 1000cc superbike!

Name: Last name is Lane so easy one.
Ride: 2005 VZ SS ute 300rwkw & Aprilia RSV4 Factory
Location: Sydney, NSW
Plans: Planning to keep it simple but have enough power to keep me happy
Occupation: Facilities Manager (Ex. Electronic Technician and Plant Mechanic)
Year of birth: 1981
Interest: Surfing, skiing, motorbikes and bonsai.
Previous Rides: 4age and 4agze AE86 Sprinter (one of the funnest cars I've owned!), 1991 Galant VR4, 1992 RS liberty, Series 3 RX7 with series 5 turbo engine, too many motorbikes to bore you with here, plenty of 250cc 2 stroke proddy racers and 1000cc superbikes.

Looking forward to reading more great info, buying a new rig and kneeing some of you in the balls one day.

Cheers

Chris.

[tom_kauf]

Welcome Chris,
I haven't driven a Passat Wagon (let alone the R36), but the VE Wagon's boot space is not too different from a GT. I had a VZ Wagon for a few years ago through work, and they were huge! (a lot bigger boot, and not the sort of rounded roof that the VE Wagon have, which reduce usable space). The VZ was massive because it was the last based on the Calais chassis, from what I heard.

The GT is a nicer size though, more of medium sized Wagon. Not massive but still enough room for eg camping gear, and they have built-in roof rail points to put surfboards etc on the roof.

The factory GTs 4cyl is lacking in torque compared to the Commodore 6 cylinders and 8s of course, but even just a tune transforms the GT! They're MUCH more tunable than the H6 3L Libertys, and definitely not slow with a few small mods. Just a Tune and a Downpipe will give a really good improvement for not much money (they're the best back-for-buck mods). And unless you want the noise, getting a full exhaust doesn't necessarily give you any power gains at that level. The sky is the limit with mods from there on, but those mods (and E85 Fuel if it's available in your area) is probably all you'll need. At the end of the day it sounds like it's still your daily, and will never be as fast as your bike.

Gen4 vs Gen5 is a personal preference. If you can stand the ugly Gen5's front, then it could be a good option. No manual transmissions though, but a bit more rear leg room. Also a bit more Tech like Bluetooth, which really should've already been standard in Gen4s by mid 2000.

[Lane]

Cheers Tom,

No Manuals? Please elaborate?

[tom_kauf]

Cheers Tom,

No Manuals? Please elaborate?

My mistake, I thought the Gen5s didn't come in Manual Transmission. But a quick search has proved me wrong. Depends what you're after anyway, but he Gen4 Manual is very good. I believe the Gen5 went to a cable operated shifter, which isn't as nice from what people have said.

[Lane]

So after a pretty quiet morning at work and more research I have my heart set on a Gen IV 07 or 08 STi manual wagon.

If anyone is or knows someone who is contemplating a sale in the near future please contact me.

[tom_kauf]

Sounds good!

Keep an eye on the 'For Sale - cars only' section on the forum.

Manual and Wagon ones are not that common (I had to get mine from WA to me in QLD). And an STi version is even more rare. But keep looking - hopefully you're not in a hurry though.

If you can do without the Tuned by STI spec, you'll find one much faster. As you probably read somewhere, they only made 300 TbSTI models. So probably far less than a quarter of those were Wagon & Manual.

Because they're not true STIs (they didn't come from Japan like that), they are not that different to normall GTs (unlike WRXs and STis). They arrived as GTs in Aus, and Subaru bolted on a few STi parts.
The firmer shocks are known to offer a harsh ride on all but the smoothest road, and the extra power is minimal (a GT with a tune will get you more). The Brembo brakes are cool, and so are the STi Enkei rims, but there are minimal performance differences apart from that. The front bumper splitter is also cool but just cosmetic (and you'll scrape it a lot), and so are the extra STi emblems in/around the car.

It's not like it has a forged engine or other things that can't easily be swapped out.

Not trying to turn you off an STi, but if you get frustrated trying to find one, the difference to a GT is not huge and can be made up with not much money

[blacktop™]

Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.

This beauty just popped up on carsales yesterday or today. it probably wont last long.

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Subaru-Liberty-2007/OAG-AD-12913916/?Cr=0

looking forward to being knee'd in the balls

[tom_kauf]

Oh wow, get it while its still for sale! lol
The ad says 1 of 30 sold in Aus, that's either a typo (there were 300 STis sold) or they mean only 30 of them were Manual Wagons - which is also possible.

And actually the price is fair considering it's a dealer! I paid $21.5k for my GT SpecB Manual Wagon 2.5 years ago (was listed for $23k), with only 20k km less.

Looks very clean. A bit of wear (wavy leather) on the bolsters of the front seat, but looks good for 180,00km. And that's an ok amount of kms if it's been looked after. Make sure the services have been done, otherwise things could get expensive.

Not a fan of the wheels, but oh well. They're not too different from the style of the stock ones, so repainting them is an option - then it will almost look stock again.

No Nav screen, just the cubby hole there instead. No big loss though, it's a bit grainy by modern standards anyway.

EDIT: Oh and those silver STi fender badges under the mirrors are ugly! Definitely not stock - hopefully they come off without causing paint damage. They're almost like an air vent that isn't really one.

[Lane]

Cheers lads,

I contacted this guy today but he has taken a deposit: http://www.carsales.com.au/private/deta ... 2194/?Cr=3

I am not in a rush, baby is almost 6 months away so still a little time to keep my eye on the market.

Ideally I would prefer a car with lower kms than that black one from Queensland unless it had full log history and was immaculate.

I realise I am particular about my criteria so might have to be patient.

[bobchuk]

I see it's too late to say, but I'll give my 2 bobs worth anyway...

...I found the back seats of my 4th Gen wagon were really just too small for my two young kids. I am just under 6ft, so very average height and size. It was OK when we had the rear facing capsule only behind the front passenger seat but when that child went into a front facing car seat behind me then things started getting very cramped. I couldn't put my seat back as far I would have liked for fear of cramping my kid and preventing the endless seat kicking! The remaining space between the two child seats was tiny even for a small person, and the narrowness of the car body and the roof mounted anchor points meant my rear vision was obscured by the seat straps. None of the issues were major, just annoying and restrictive. My lease ran out when my eldest was 2.5, so I sold the 4th Gen wagon and bought a 5th GT Wagon. The previous owner had made some nice aesthetic mods (19" wheels, STi spoiler, blackened grills, tinted windows etc.) so it looked nice (in my mind, at least) but there was an immediate improvement in comfort for all of us (except for the stiffer anti-sway ride and low profile tyres, my wife says!) and I have never looked back. I still love my 5th Gen wagon. Actually I am still proud when I see it in my driveway or a carpark somewhere. It's a 2010 2.5GT premium auto with less than 100,000km. It is my personal daily drive (very, very fast off the mark and incredibly stable in the wet and with enough space in back for my golf clubs and work tools) but it also get's the responsibility for longer trips and family holidays (great boot size, speakers and mod cons) and has never let us down. The only restriction has been camping, which I have happily stopped doing until my kids grow up a bit, at which time I'll get a 6cyl.Outback and disappear fully into my forties.

Just saying I've owned a 4th Gen and the improved size of the 5th Gen made a big difference in terms of overall comfort and storage capabilities for me with a wife and two young kids. My car seamlessly switches between family wagon and personal racer. Not many other affordable cars could do that when I got it in 2014.

All the best regardless of your choice.

[Lane]

Thanks bobchuk, never too late for some good info and I will take it into consideration.

I am away this weekend so hopefully the weekend after I can go on a few test drives of some 4 and 5's.

[Lane]

So, went to look at three cars today, two 07 STi's and a gen 5 GT, the first gen 4 the guy was adamant that only he drove it, fair enough, he got it out onto the freeway and at 100kph in 4th gave it the boot and it went up to around $1.60 fairly quickly. Being a quiet, smooth car they can be deceptively quick but not having drove it myself it's hard to gauge. Never got to feel it pull in 1st and 2nd gear which I would have preferred.

Then drove a gen 4 STi with myself, the gf and the salesman in the back and it was very sluggish, never got that rush of power that a turbo car should have?

Last but not least drove a GT gen 5 with only myself and the gf and it was so much quicker than the STi I drove, good power everywhere and the brakes had heaps of bite, was impressed with how it drove and was what i expected the STi to drive if not better?

All three were 100% standard, had between 130-190 000 kms and had full service history and in good condition.

It wasn't until I left and was wondering why it felt so slow that I also realised I'd left each one in the standard S mode and not the full power mode, but I believe that shouldn't make a huge difference if I left both of them in that mode?

There's a chance that the STi test drive was a little flawed as I was on Parramatta Rd whereas the gen 5 was on a nice backroad with no one else around but I have no doubts it was seriously lacking power.

I will definitely drive a few more STi as I'm sure they should be quicker.

Any input or advice much appreciated.

[tom_kauf]

Cool. I've never compared a gen 4 to a gen 5, but the stock SI drive only increases the throttle sensitivity on a gen 4. With an aftermarket tune, each mode can vary the boost etc, but on a stock tune the SI Drive in S# definitely only makes it seem more responsive.

And you can never be 100% sure if a car is stock. A seller will often hide the fact, to appeal to more people. If it's only had a tune, you may not notice unless you have driven a few to compare.

[Lane]

I see, thanks mate.

Also i notice that an '08 can be number 061 of 300 yet an '07 can be 260 of 300, were 300 released each year?

[tom_kauf]

I wasn't sure if there were 300/year, but these are the 07 & 08 STI lists below, and they are totally different. So yes, must be 300/year. There are also slight differences between the years like stock tyre size I believe.

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1690

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2637