Looking at a 2008 Liberty GT B-spec

[Ollygt]

Hello all,
After much looking for replacement cars I've shortlisted the 4th Gen Liberty GT B-spec sedan (or even perhaps wagon)
The only issue is I've grown up with trouble free Japanese I-4s that have all run well over 200,000 kms and I'm a little leery of turbo charged engines and the EJ25 getting a bad rap in NA form for head gaskets, piston slap etc.

Are there any issues with the 4th Gen Liberty GT B-Spec car itself or drive train specific? I tend to over service my cars but all my cars have been NA 1.6-2.0L 16valve DOHC 4s some high revving the others low down dungers (not counting a Mazda 929 V6 Quad cam but less said about that the better) They've all had no engine trouble, just the usual replacement water pumps, timing belts, seals and gaskets but no head gaskets and all have happilly crossed the 200K mark.

I like the 4th Gen Liberty GT B-Spec but an old addage sticks in my head, "If you couldn't afford it when it was new, you definitely can't afford it when it's older"
And with a $60K price tag when new, I dont' think I could've bought one.

[BillyCorgi]

Are there any issues with the 4th Gen Liberty GT B-Spec car itself or drive train specific?

I am not a Liberty Turbo owner, so the comments are general from researching Subaru issues on the internet over the last many years.....

There are no head gasket issues with the EJ20/EJ25 Turbo engines. (No more than any other performance engine)
The head gasket issues were essentially restricted to the 2.5 litre N/A engines.
Basically, the N/A cars up until the GEN5 persisted in using a coated single layer gasket and the coating broke down over time resulting in internal and external leaks.
The "fix" for the N/A cars was to use head gasket off the Turbo engines. These were introduced into the factory N/A cars at the Gen5 model.
The Turbo engines used a three layer Multi-Layered-Shim (MLS) head gasket design which was basically trouble free from the internal/external leak issue of the N/A design.

The EJ25 Turbo engines used a hyper-eutectic piston.
These pistons, however fine for a stock engine, are basically intolerant to knocking and are subject to broken ring glands when overstressed.
Replacement forged pistons in higher engine tunes are better.

The turbo engines were subject to turbo failures.
This was caused by a combination of an oil filter possibly(?) too small for the more arduous application in a turbo engine plus a metal mesh strainer in the oil feed line to the turbo.
The failure occurred when the oil filter became highly loaded and went into bypass. The bypass material could clog the mesh strainer in the turbo oil feed line and starve the turbo for lubrication.
As a countermeasure, Subaru America mandated 6,250km (in our language) service intervals for the turbos.
This is one reason very good quality oil and good filtration is required for the EJ turbo engines and why most owners who love their ride change oil at 5 to 6,000km.
Some owners were also known to remove the metal mesh strainer from the Bango Bolt, to remove the object that was prone to blocking.
The issue with the clogging oil filter also stressed big end bearings, see below.

Spun Big end bearings.
The big end bearing lubrication system is stressed in an EJ engine.
It is not that it is bad, it is that it is a point of weakness in the EJ engine and it will haunt higher tuned engines.
NEVER run the oil level low. The big ends will suffer first.
When this was haunting the cars in the USA, many North American Subaru owners went over to Shell Rotella T6 engine oil.
This is a full synthetic 5W-40 heavy duty turbo diesel engine oil with "C" and "S" ratings and seemed to work really well with the high shear stresses created in a big turbo diesel engine and seemed to operate with excellent results in Turbo engines like the Subaru.

So there is your story on Head Gaskets, Pistons, Oiling & Lubrication and Big End Bearings for the EJ25 Turbo engines.
Their are probably other stories that other forum members may add.

By the way, the drive train itself is basically sound, as the 6MT box is just so strong for this vehicle. The weakness is the Viscous Coupling in the centre differential, however I konow someone who is setting up to rebuild these.

[jslayz]

Great summary Billy, I think you have nailed it!

[Ollygt]

Fantastic, Thanks Billy.
Well there's nothing there I can't deal with. Is there a newer oil filter they use these days with a bigger capacity. I do know of people who rig up the bigger oil filters to their cars (without effecting oil pressures of course) I wonder if it might be worth doing. Although I do change religiously at 5K, even in dungers like the 7A-FE corolla. (but I do a fair amount of short trips so it can't hurt)

[alexeiwoody]

I've owned two gen4 GTs, one heavily modified GT-B EJ255 (still mine ) and one nearly stock GT tbSti Ej20**. Can also speak for many members here, past or present and some of their experiences with the EJs.

1. Some good news - IIRC most (if not all) of the banjo bolt filters were removed on the postFl models in Australia. Obviously it's always best to check to make 100% certain, there is always an exception to the rule.

2. Headgaksets are a very common problem on the EJ255s - the GT-Bs. Plenty of possible causes to choose from too - OEM items like the water pump (stamped style like a tin can), stock ECU tune/cooling parameters, rod bolt and head gasket design (thinner sealing surface area compared to the Ej20s) - do not help the cause, and poor servicing/harsh treatment from a previous owned is just the icing on the cake.

3. Turbo failures on the Ej255 are by comparison a lot more rare.

4. I've found the stock oil filter to be more than enough to last a rigorous 10,000kms as tested down to PPM, results were very good. Obviously - depends on the age of the engine, quality of oil, driving style, conditions etc- and changing more often is cheap insurance, when you're not sure.

5. The EJ255 in stock form is known to drink oil. Somehow Subaru managed to get around this issue from a consumer affairs point of view, but an AOS or a catch is advisable to have...at the very least.

6. Stock oil pick up is known to crack - resulting in loss of oil pressure....

7. You might come across O2 sensor issues, avcs issues, intake hoses and vac lines tend to age. Boost leaks are common and plentiful All pretty minor problems, but diagnosing can be a PITA.

In summary - they can be a fantastic car/engine/gearbox - but in terms of money can be hit and miss. If you're tempted to modify it - take note of everything I've written above as it becomes more and more applicable as you add more power - even with "safe bolt ons" as they're often referred to. As much as I love my GT, this is not the car for bang for buck power - plenty of easier/cheaper options out there.

If you're planning to keep it stock - great little car And maybe have a look at the postFL H6 specBs. Very similar, if not the same, stock for stock - but a heap less things to worry about.

[BillyCorgi]

Some Subaru Of America Technical Service Bulletins regarding Turbo Oil Service Intervals and turbo failure due to oil starvation.
http://imgur.com/a/XztnT
Subaru Of America Technical Service Bulletins covering degradation of oil and oil/filter service intervals
http://imgur.com/a/4vDk4

A link to AllWheelDriveAuto.com on similar subject matter.
https://allwheeldriveauto.com/how-to-ma ... urbo-last/

[alexeiwoody]

Some Subaru Of America Technical Service Bulletins regarding Turbo Oil Service Intervals and turbo failure due to oil starvation.
http://imgur.com/a/XztnT
Subaru Of America Technical Service Bulletins covering degradation of oil and oil/filter service intervals
http://imgur.com/a/4vDk4

A link to AllWheelDriveAuto.com on sililar subject matter.
https://allwheeldriveauto.com/how-to-ma ... urbo-last/

Looks like Subaru covering their behind? "IMO" changing oil every 6000kms is excessive, especially on a stock car on 98, although that's not to say there won't be times/situations where this won't be warranted. And not servicing every 6000kms/4 months voids the warranty? That's pretty convenient. I hope you can see the clear conflict of interest in that "technical" bulletin.

The only way to make sure you have a blocked banjo filter (or if there's a filter at all) - is to inspect your own turbo. Some mechanics don't bother putting it back in. I would agree with you that this is a great place for the OP to check, just in case.

As for the stock oil filter being too small...sure it can be bigger, but it's like anything. We can point at any part of the system and say it could be better. Does it need to be bigger? According to the tests on my car (10,000kms on E85 with 2.5 times factory power) - no. Filter used - small OEM. If you're looking to push your service out further, or if your oil is getting a lot of contaminants etc - maybe the bigger filter is a good idea.

[bigBADbenny]

Far out ^
I'm using the bigger my09+ RX8 oil filter and Penrite Syn5...
I do use heaps of oil w/ lotsa blow-by at 230k, so a Kap Industries dual chambered air oil seperator will be my next reliability mod.
My mechanic says it's a good thing, blow-by keeps the rings lubed, run a slightly richer tune w/o washing the bores