club.liberty.asn.au

dr20t wrote:

Tonic wrote:Used some of the United stuff for the first time the other day... Lack of alternative. Didn't feel as good as fresh 98 from shell or bp. Maybe older fuel but i am suss on ethanol so i blamed that...
Getting a kido tune soon so will be on 98 for that.
Fwiw.

What exactly about ethanol fuels are you sus about?

It smells sus'. Besides, I've heard it makes your injectors evaporate and fuel tank explode.

The guy who told me has a primary school education and 40 years experience change air and oil filters, so I trust him.

Tonic wrote:Used some of the United stuff for the first time the other day... Lack of alternative. Didn't feel as good as fresh 98 from shell or bp. Maybe older fuel but i am suss on ethanol so i blamed that...
Getting a kido tune soon so will be on 98 for that.
Fwiw.

WHAT????

sus about bio fuel over fossil dead body fuel?

it smells awesome so it must be better right?

coyote wrote:It smells sus'. Besides, I've heard it makes your injectors evaporate and fuel tank explode.

The guy who told me has a primary school education and 40 years experience change air and oil filters, so I trust him.

^^^^ hahahahahahahahahahaha

Apparently a solvent so likely eating away at the rubber and plastic bits..... Apparently also can leave residues...... And it seemed to lack bang for the buck as mentioned....
I'm only suss on it not against it.
Kido tune likes the E85 stuff but I went a 98 tune..... Which has been great btw....

Tonic wrote:Apparently a solvent so likely eating away at the rubber and plastic bits..... Apparently also can leave residues...... And it seemed to lack bang for the buck as mentioned....
I'm only suss on it not against it.
Kido tune likes the E85 stuff but I went a 98 tune..... Which has been great btw....

Hey Nick, im sure Matt would tune you for P100 if you asked for it.
I just had my car tuned for P100 yesterday and can tell you without doubt it made a huge difference!
The tuner was able to add 3 degrees of timing which makes a fairly big difference. I was also told by my tuner that P100 is a safer fuel as knock is far less likely. There is apparently more head room too, just as some said earlier in this thread.

Tonic wrote:Apparently a solvent so likely eating away at the rubber and plastic bits..... Apparently also can leave residues...... And it seemed to lack bang for the buck as mentioned....
I'm only suss on it not against it.
Kido tune likes the E85 stuff but I went a 98 tune..... Which has been great btw....

The myth about ethanol is mostly that - myths and fiction:

http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showt ... hp?t=73061

http://www.google.com/patents/US5157083

http://edit.news.cmg.net/pnneditorial/i ... 0_8571.pdf


For those that cbf'd - (ie tl:dr)

Post 1988 fuel rubber hose composition will not rot away with ethanol. (Link above to patent for the sceptics, as well as an independent experiment report showing immersion impacts of ethanol on fuel)

Ethanol is fine if you set things up right - you will get some condensation on moving parts exposed to fuel, including exhaust which may cause rust. So untreated or uncoated mild steel exhausts may not be best for ethanol.

Other things to be mindful of are oil dilution, ethanol content variation, and over advanced timing which is masked by high knock threshold whilst you may actually be pushing too much cylinder pressure and exhaust gas temps, robbing you of power and longevity.

That is, you might be running very big timing advance, and see no knock at all, when in reality you're way ahead of mbt (mean best timing) which is not good. Alot of tuners don't look for this fact, particularly at peak torque (which is highest dynamic cylinder pressure)

All of these can be fixed though with proper oil choice and regular oil change intervals, correct spark plugs, a wideband afr gauge to monitor afr on the fly, and a proper egt or experienced tuner on the dyno.

Mick

Interesting what you say about mbt mick. Isnt that how tuners tune for timing... advance until it stops being of benefit and then back the timing off?

peadya100 wrote:Interesting what you say about mbt mick. Isnt that how tuners tune for timing... advance until it stops being of benefit and then back the timing off?

Yes and no

Unless you see your tuner with an egt probe plumbed in, or has intricate knowledge of all different Subaru engine range's mbt, then probably not

Most tuners these days load 2 to 3 degrees more timing across the board, which is great as you don't see knock (e85 is pretty much knock proof unless running huge compression and boost)

Reality is, you won't knock but you could be past mbt without ever knowing unless you back timing off to check

Some tuners prefer boost, some prefer timing, some prefer both. The lower the cylinder pressure the better.

Well one things for sure. Youve got an impressive amount of knowledge for someone thats not a tuner

I guess im lucky to have a very good dedicated subaru tuner nearby.

Tonic wrote:Apparently a solvent so likely eating away at the rubber and plastic bits..... Apparently also can leave residues...... And it seemed to lack bang for the buck as mentioned....
I'm only suss on it not against it.
Kido tune likes the E85 stuff but I went a 98 tune..... Which has been great btw....

What! Lack bang for buck??? It has to be best bang for buck mod you can do. I have just been tuned to e85 and I am loving it.

Anyone tested the ethanol content? And tested Multiple times to see if its consistent ?

<GB> wrote:Anyone tested the ethanol content? And tested Multiple times to see if its consistent ?

I have. Eflex from the one servo was pretty consistent at about 71-72 %

However some eflex sites showed 67 and one showed 74

United - 83-87 percent for Smithfield, 91% the one time I tested drummoyne, and 90 percent yagoona

That's e85? I mean the p100 stuff .

<GB> wrote:That's e85? I mean the p100 stuff .

I would assume that the P100 would have the same consistency as e85 as theyre both united fuels.

P100 is mixed on site though as far as I'm aware. So can differ servo to servo