MY06 3RB MT Tuning. Owners Input Wanted

[Robbks]

Rightyo guys,
Hooking up with my tuner to get experimental on the old girl.
He's got buckets of experience with STi's (his own) wrx's, nissans, toyota's and a wide range of diesel's, SC'd Hilux, etc but hasn't tackled a H6 Subie yet.
We're both more than confident in his abilities and produces great results that are safe.

But as this is gonna be his test mule for tuning a H6 Liberty i'm just after some input on the common issues you're come across and had ironed out during your own tuning experiences.
(if anyone starts on the bagging of tuners for any particular reason, I'll get Ric to pull out the ban-stick or get the "boys" to drive by your house and fill your car up with expanding foam... )

My main complaints about the thing
-DBW maps are terrible and appear non-linear. I can drive, if i ask for 30% throttle I want 30% throttle, not some ridiculous assumption by the ECU to limit throttle opening or whip it open quickly just to make it "feel" fast.
-car always try's to rev up when holding the car stationary on the clutch, (I'm doing it for a reason, it's not stalling, do what I tell you you stupid car.. )
-Timing Chain rattle at 2000-2500rpm caused byhuge increase in cam advance angles
-sluggish under 3000rpm. appears to be a combination of too lean and holding onto closed loop for too long.
-car jerks when you're off throttle and rpm's decreasing to the point that the injectors begin to cycle again (1200rpm) would like this transition to be smoother.
-general driving smoothness from smoothing fuel and ignition maps to give a big EFF YOU to emissions restrictions..

these are the main Issue's i'm trying to iron out.
Outright power and economy is a secondary concern at the moment.

[HoFF]

My tune from Matt covers all those bases.

I haven't had any problems with mine and the only complaints I have heard about H6 tuning is pinging.

Good luck.

[KiDo_Tuning]

Rightyo guys,
Hooking up with my tuner to get experimental on the old girl.
He's got buckets of experience with STi's (his own) wrx's, nissans, toyota's and a wide range of diesel's, SC'd Hilux, etc but hasn't tackled a H6 Subie yet.
We're both more than confident in his abilities and produces great results that are safe.

But as this is gonna be his test mule for tuning a H6 Liberty i'm just after some input on the common issues you're come across and had ironed out during your own tuning experiences.
(if anyone starts on the bagging of tuners for any particular reason, I'll get Ric to pull out the ban-stick or get the "boys" to drive by your house and fill your car up with expanding foam... )

My main complaints about the thing
-DBW maps are terrible and appear non-linear. I can drive, if i ask for 30% throttle I want 30% throttle, not some ridiculous assumption by the ECU to limit throttle opening or whip it open quickly just to make it "feel" fast.
-car always try's to rev up when holding the car stationary on the clutch, (I'm doing it for a reason, it's not stalling, do what I tell you you stupid car.. )
-Timing Chain rattle at 2000-2500rpm caused byhuge increase in cam advance angles
-sluggish under 3000rpm. appears to be a combination of too lean and holding onto closed loop for too long.
-car jerks when you're off throttle and rpm's decreasing to the point that the injectors begin to cycle again (1200rpm) would like this transition to be smoother.
-general driving smoothness from smoothing fuel and ignition maps to give a big EFF YOU to emissions restrictions..

these are the main Issue's i'm trying to iron out.
Outright power and economy is a secondary concern at the moment.

Dont go straight line DBW... as a hint, try something like the 06 WRX as a starting point. The 'interpolate' feature works well once you put in new column values
Also, think of it as 30% acc requests 30% of the available torque and not 30% throttle. AVCS throws out the airflow on throttle angle so a starting point like the WRX will improve things drastically.

Closed loop 14:1 under 3200rpm works as that is part of the AVLS system(see my 2.5i thread) but getting timing right is the priority on the timing and AVCS maps with less rows. More rows is the 'power' map with AVCS B. Do not 'match them' and the timing chain rattle will minimise/disappear. 6th gear has pull from 1000rpm doing 45kph if you get it right and have the throttle angle right(which is why straight line DBW does not work as not enough vacuum in the manifold)

Point 2 and 4 are the DBW. Fix as above.

[Robbks]

Cheers guys, much appreciated

can't find the 2.5 thread (because 2.5i can't be searched)
i'm blind

6th gear has pull from 1000rpm doing 45kph if you get it right and have the throttle angle right(which is why straight line DBW does not work as not enough vacuum in the manifold)

I'd assume relatively lower throttle opening helping to increase gas velocity,
as opposed to having wider throttle opening and making the engine work harder to suck the air in?

[KiDo_Tuning]

Cheers guys, much appreciated

can't find the 2.5 thread (because 2.5i can't be searched)
i'm blind

6th gear has pull from 1000rpm doing 45kph if you get it right and have the throttle angle right(which is why straight line DBW does not work as not enough vacuum in the manifold)

I'd assume relatively lower throttle opening helping to increase gas velocity,
as opposed to having wider throttle opening and making the engine work harder to suck the air in?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22428
2.5i thread

Correct.

[SubMeister]

Like what HoFF said, my H6 was tuned with Matt (KiDo) and I got all those things you specified. I wanted to get rid of the DBW lag and have smoother more proportional power delivery. I wanted the torque to come in a bit earlier but I didn't want any more power. A 10% improvement in economy was good, but secondary. Very similar to what you want.

The only issue I had was when high summer hit and I got what I thought was mild pinging between 2500 and 3000, and then again briefly at 4500. But LV was clean so it stumped Matt and me for a while. Matt eventually thought it could be timing chain rattle. So he came back with a revised tune that pushed the cam switchover point to 3000, instead of 2500. The sound went away. Haven't checked LV in a while since the car still feels good ...and also I don't have ready access to one

Good luck with your tuning, the H6 responds well to the approach you're taking
...which is basically what this dude is saying between 3:35 and 5:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCN7KlMzDAk

[HoFF]

A tune really does transform these cars in to something fantastic.

[Robbks]

Cheers guys.
Got some good results last night in drivability from dbw tuning only so much more like a cable throttle to drive now.
Did a few drive cycles and noticed IAM was dropping to .3 very quickly. Will address ign next

Issue we had was neither rr or ecuflash would let us into the avcs tables to address that timing chain rattle.
Are the defs out there in public release?

[Robbks]

OK,
Why do these things have 8 different base timing maps?
and when do they change between them?

[KiDo_Tuning]

OK,
Why do these things have 8 different base timing maps?
and when do they change between them?

DOXJ001M?

A + B + E + F plus KCA A all relate to AVCS A which is cruise/fuel economy EGR mode

C + D + G + H plus KCA B all relate to the larger AVCS B which is power mode

These are the EcuFlash AVCS tables if you dont have them
<table name="Intake Cam Advance Angle A (AVCS)" address="cb07c">
<table name="Engine Load" address="cb018"/>
<table name="Engine Speed" address="cb050" elements="11"/>
</table>

<table name="Intake Cam Advance Angle B (AVCS)" address="cb230">
<table name="Engine Load" address="cb1b0"/>
<table name="Engine Speed" address="cb1e8"/>
</table>

[Robbks]

OK,
Why do these things have 8 different base timing maps?
and when do they change between them?

DOXJ001M?

A + B + E + F plus KCA A all relate to AVCS A which is cruise/fuel economy EGR mode

C + D + G + H plus KCA B all relate to the larger AVCS B which is power mode

These are the EcuFlash AVCS tables if you dont have them
<table name="Intake Cam Advance Angle A (AVCS)" address="cb07c">
<table name="Engine Load" address="cb018"/>
<table name="Engine Speed" address="cb050" elements="11"/>
</table>

<table name="Intake Cam Advance Angle B (AVCS)" address="cb230">
<table name="Engine Load" address="cb1b0"/>
<table name="Engine Speed" address="cb1e8"/>
</table>

DOXJ001M
yep.

ahh, sweet thanks matt.
just what we needed

what's the changeover trigger?
Throttle percentage?
Engine load?

[KiDo_Tuning]

DOXJ001M
yep.

ahh, sweet thanks matt.
just what we needed

what's the changeover trigger?
Throttle percentage?
Engine load?

Airflow g/sec(around 50g/sec from memory)
or
Engine rpm varying depending on Engine load

Also, A to D are Bank 1 and E to G are Bank 2