Gen 5 GT - Bang for Buck Mods / Tune

[KiDo_Tuning]

The question here though is - should Matt post a dyno graph that shows a car with dump and tune doing 200kW, would everyone believe it anyway (and would the arguments go away), or would some people then start questioning the type of dyno, or the mode the dyno was operating in, or the dyno parameters (ramp up, etc) used for the run, or the gear used for the run, etc etc.

Yes he should, that would be a start. According to him he can make 30kw to a tuned car with only a dump pipe. Don't even you find that a little hard to believe?

We can question the dyno later, as to the feasibility of it, the ability of the turbo to flow that much air, the difference between melbourne/sydney etc etc But first we don't have a gen 5 dyno graph, except one from Insight, tuned by Scott, making 200atw with bolt ons and a full TBE. Matt is claiming he can achieve the same result with just a dump pipe. Why is it so hard to just provide a graph, if he keeps mentioning cars he tuned?

By the way "RRUSSH" doesn't have photos up. And from a previous thread - "Karnage" doesn't exist on this or other forums. And another lib's (with a TD06 turbo) gearshifts were never fixed, as claimed by Matt, but confirmed by the owner otherwise.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.... so can we please see some proof or can we stop seeing these claims to drum up business?

For what it's worth - with a post-FL 4Gen 2.5T and 5EAT gearbox, at least three tuners told me that I should be able to get to ~190kW ATW with VF52, dump/mid-pipe, silicon intake hoses and tune, and MSR said 200kW if I also replace headers.

Rob, we have at least 4 well documented gen4 5eat profiles on this forum, with dyno graphs and mod updates. Even if three tuners told you otherwise, you'd still see the reality.

What I don't know is how much power the 5Gens generate compared to the 4Gens for equivalent mods. Does anyone have good information on this?

And that's exactly why 4 people so far in this thread have asked for a graph. So far, no kido tuned gen 5's have a dyno graph. Yet they're all "making between 205-210" with just a TBE.

How does one tuner make so much more power (with less mods) over Scott at Insight, without even using a dyno to make sure the car is safe?

Please Matt, we just want an actual dyno graph or a time slip, preferably at Insight (since you've tuned so many cars there). Just commenting that you've made this happen is starting to look extra dodgy.

With a TD06 turbo... huh? Oh you mean a TD05 which the owner confirmed as having an issue that has since been resolved and is waiting on me to tweak the tune to suit the new power delivery curve? The owner did post something to that effect though. Seem me claiming on here that the gearshifts were fixed, as the gearshifts were BETTER but still needed work to match the actual engines power delivery?
So mystery TD06 owner is whom? If it is the TD06 06 FXT 4EAT in Melbourne, why is it shifting perfectly?

Karnage exists.. the Sydney guys would know the car. Tomei turbo on it Nice effort though... members profile is extensive.

Yeah, maybe RRUSSH did not post the dyno graph from JEM. Although DR20T was there and say the results of just a tune from S# stock to Sport tuned(S# actually made slightly less power on less boost due to the torque limiters). Maybe I also did not retune DR20T's car from the mid 190Kw region on 20psi to over 210Kw on 16psi on pump fuel on the same day with slightly richer AFR's... right? Also never got T.Renshaws car up 25Kw either over its previous auto tune right with perfect gearshifts? Hey, lets also ignore the 320hp from a VF52 08 5EAT LGT on 16.2psi as well shall we Alexei? It was a hub dyno though... Hell, maybe I did not retune Gene/mongmong's car either right? I must of made less power and made the gearbox undriveable

I dont post dyno graphs willy nilly, some people like to keep them to themselves. If/when they choose to post, I am happy to link them back to the thread or post details.

Me and Scott actually get along pretty well and I have been helping him with stuff as well. Surprising how many tuners are open to new ideas.... especially when there is new stuff out that nobody else has

[<GB>]

matt, people want to see the graphs of 200awkw with bare mods only a tune, please provide a link?

talk means nothing here, back it up with hard evidence or stop posting stuff like this.

[kiahatsiu]

My tuner got over 200kw at just 10 psi. No graph though.

[KiDo_Tuning]

matt, people want to see the graphs of 200awkw with bare mods only a tune, please provide a link?

talk means nothing here, back it up with hard evidence or stop posting stuff like this.

New TS VF54 actually flows extremely well(outflows VF52 for same boost levels) and is backed up by the data from the USA, which is where I have been retuning a fair few cars lately and well, if I made less power I am sure they would notice... right?

Quite a few people have seen me when I run the dyno sessions, the owner gets the dyno sheet(except in one case where the owner didnt pick it up before leaving and I ended up with it) so asking ME to post dyno sheets is essentially as likely as you posting those dyno sheets. Neither of us having them in our possession... does not mean they do not exist.

[lump_a_charcoal]

I bet you were really born in Nigeria too, Matt.

[<GB>]

matt, people want to see the graphs of 200awkw with bare mods only a tune, please provide a link?

talk means nothing here, back it up with hard evidence or stop posting stuff like this.

New TS VF54 actually flows extremely well(outflows VF52 for same boost levels) and is backed up by the data from the USA, which is where I have been retuning a fair few cars lately and well, if I made less power I am sure they would notice... right?

Quite a few people have seen me when I run the dyno sessions, the owner gets the dyno sheet(except in one case where the owner didnt pick it up before leaving and I ended up with it) so asking ME to post dyno sheets is essentially as likely as you posting those dyno sheets. Neither of us having them in our possession... does not mean they do not exist.

Dunno your bum dyno needs recalibrating ha ha

so these apparent 200awkw cars are on which state dyno's as we all know they don't seen to be comparable

also what bare basic mods do these 200awkw cars have with the vf54? or is it only a tune and they hit that mark?

[lump_a_charcoal]

He estimated mine to be a bit over 200kWatw, and I have a TBE, TMIC and a tune.
Of course it is an estimate only - I really don't give a shit, as it isn't a penis measuring exercise for me.
It is awesome to drive, and awesome value for the money.

[Fish Jetski]

He estimated mine to be a bit over 200kWatw, and I have a TBE, TMIC and a tune.
Of course it is an estimate only - I really don't give a shit, as it isn't a penis measuring exercise for me.
It is awesome to drive, and awesome value for the money.

I apologise for going back to the thread topic but...

which TMIC did you go with? I am thinking of AVO.

*Yep, went to your profile - you have AVO on yours. What do you think of the difference it brings?

[lump_a_charcoal]

He estimated mine to be a bit over 200kWatw, and I have a TBE, TMIC and a tune.
Of course it is an estimate only - I really don't give a shit, as it isn't a penis measuring exercise for me.
It is awesome to drive, and awesome value for the money.

I apologise for going back to the thread topic but...

which TMIC did you go with? I am thinking of AVO.

*Yep, went to your profile - you have AVO on yours. What do you think of the difference it brings?

Well I don't have any dyno graphs, but it was a very noticeable improvement.

Much quicker to spool, and I think more power.

Well worth it, despite the $$$.

I also installed a HKS filter, which may have helped a bit.

[KiDo_Tuning]

matt, people want to see the graphs of 200awkw with bare mods only a tune, please provide a link?

talk means nothing here, back it up with hard evidence or stop posting stuff like this.

New TS VF54 actually flows extremely well(outflows VF52 for same boost levels) and is backed up by the data from the USA, which is where I have been retuning a fair few cars lately and well, if I made less power I am sure they would notice... right?

Quite a few people have seen me when I run the dyno sessions, the owner gets the dyno sheet(except in one case where the owner didnt pick it up before leaving and I ended up with it) so asking ME to post dyno sheets is essentially as likely as you posting those dyno sheets. Neither of us having them in our possession... does not mean they do not exist.

Dunno your bum dyno needs recalibrating ha ha

so these apparent 200awkw cars are on which state dyno's as we all know they don't seen to be comparable

also what bare basic mods do these 200awkw cars have with the vf54? or is it only a tune and they hit that mark?

Its like saying a tune only MY08+ STi wont make 190+Kw on a Mainline dyno in NSW, Victoria or the U.A.E... same engine, slightly different turbo so considering in stock form the LGT runs around 1.5psi less boost at peak power, I am not really fussed if you believe it or not. It is a number and the LGT GenV major issue is the lack of low rpm torque/driveability(which is fixed) and a driveable accelerator pedal response feedback.

Bang for buck, with the majority of owners realising that the turbo loves low rpm torque for a comfortable GT Cruiser

Edit:

08STISIRWRX.jpg (165.35 KiB) Viewed 3158 times

Not bad for stock boost level and this is an OLD tune where major developments have been made since I tuned it originally

[alexeiwoody]

Thanks for posting a graph, Matt.

It's the wrong car/engine/turbo...

Anyone with some general knowledge of Subaru engines should see a number a flaws in your reasoning why this graph somehow suffices for a gen 5 liberty?

I particularly get intrigued/confused/scared/excited when you amount the 20kwatw dyno difference between a stock gen5LGT and a stock STI - to 1.5psi of boost.

I see there are a few dyno retunes happening around the country, might be good chance to snap the right graph up?

[bass_straitener]

I thought I'd seen the above graph before.

It's taken from this thread http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/kido-racing/51264-kido-tunes-perth-24th-28th-oct-5.html

The car in question is a 2008 WRX STI which runs a VF48 and much easier to get to 200kw with a TBE and a couple of simple mods.

Not really comparing apples with apples.

I'd like to see Gen V graph for comparison to show the differences between the tune you provide and the OP's tune by Maximum Motorsport. It's not about big numbers etc. Fish want's a tune with down low torque and more off boost, or earlier boost onset type performance for his driving style.

A graph would be the second best way to demonstrate the difference between a Maximum Motorsport tune and your offering. The best way would be a drive based comparison of the two tunes with some feedback for this thread.

[jslayz]

MM Tune 320hp at hubs at rpw dyno.
In over 6 months only once has it gone under IAM 1.00 to 9.sumthing once.

Now I beat shit out of this car every chance I have.....

Matt will be reworking on his next visit.....same dyno.

Lets see what goes on here......

J

[KiDo_Tuning]

I thought I'd seen the above graph before.

It's taken from this thread http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/kido-racing/51264-kido-tunes-perth-24th-28th-oct-5.html

The car in question is a 2008 WRX STI which runs a VF48 and much easier to get to 200kw with a TBE and a couple of simple mods.

Not really comparing apples with apples.

I'd like to see Gen V graph for comparison to show the differences between the tune you provide and the OP's tune by Maximum Motorsport. It's not about big numbers etc. Fish want's a tune with down low torque and more off boost, or earlier boost onset type performance for his driving style.

A graph would be the second best way to demonstrate the difference between a Maximum Motorsport tune and your offering. The best way would be a drive based comparison of the two tunes with some feedback for this thread.

VF54 is same size Bruce but has considerably more exhaust housing flow due to the flange design plus turbo location and header design so does not 'need' big boost to make power For example, Satogixxers car makes 200Kw on 14psi... stock boost is actually 11.6psi midrange with peak boost at 12.38psi at 5200rpm to make same power as a GenIV but more midrange torque on less boost... They see over 3g/rev in stock form with that boost level.

So you want midrange torque? I imagine 16.2psi at 2400rpm is enough to wake it up in S# mode. Has the equivalent airflow at 3200rpm on 16.2psi as a VF52 making 20psi

Notice that STi dyno sheet is also dead stock as it left the factory. No exhaust mods or intake mods... it is owned by the wife of Basheer of the Osman Brothers(of Osmans Autosalon car fame with their Jungle STi and Yellow STi convertible) so it is relevant to show what an STi engine is capable of in stock form when tuned right... with 1/4 mile times to back it up(not 220+Kw stuck in the 13's, just deep into the 12's)

[Sean82]

Comparing a stock LGT 5EAT, it made 141Kw@wheels and went 173Kw tune only.

Even a 3psi boost increase(to 16.4psi) will see 30Kw gain in a manual without even leaning out the AFR's or modifying timing too much and the dump should see closer to 200Kw.

Oh look another unbacked-up claim.

And wait, yet MORE "evidence" of your claims by using a non-relevant car that doesn't actually back up your claim...you know, like claiming a stock 4EAT SH Forester with just your tune can do 0-100 in sub-5s with ease, then showing a LGT with a bigger turbo, not actually doing what you claimed

Fish, If you're not entirely happy with the tune, take it back and talk to them.
I'm not a customer of Mercury because I don't like ECUtek and am happy using the tuner I do, but the couple of times I have called them, they have been awesomely helpful, so their customer service, I can vouch for