[Split from] Learning View Snapshots \ Discussions

[brainy]

I wanted to ask permission from my tuner before posting
I he doesn't mind, tonight. Just sent him latest logs n LV.
Afaik the tune is on track, max boost is at 18-19 psi on the possibly over accurate VBG1.
It's great for keeping an eye on spikes due to its accuracy over logging and or analogue gauges.
DBW settings have been toned down to around 70% max requested torque, very useable in all modes on my high K clutch.
Need to sort my wideband/s ASAP.
I guess then popping & economy can be addressed.
I'm patient and not chasing any figures, just drivability and reliability with my minimal liberating mods: filter, zorst, pump.

It's very hard to take you serious watching you chase your tail, panic about your tune, reflash a stock tune, flash back, not revealing your LV's, asking to test ghost issues, then suck up like there's no tomorrow while hoping for some sort of "end result".
So is the VBG-1 being "over accurate" causing some sort of issue for you as well now?
All of these issues occurring with your tune on what seems to be an almost stock car?

Time to maybe wake up, or keep doing what you are doing for however long it takes....

[WheelieBin]

Edit: missed the quote. This was in response to Bruce.

I'm intending on LV'ing, organising to borrow a Tactrix cable.

However, I have to say here I'm getting a bit sick of the attitude that's developing here and is very obvious in the thread on Rexnet...

Now, I am not disputing the fact that you've had issues with the service provided to you by Matt or the resultant tune, I don't for a moment expect you to be coming on here spreading blatant lies, so it's obvious there are problems. It's also obvious that there are a not-insignificant amount of other people with problems as well.

However, the implication that the only people who are not having issues are either n00bs (I *am*, but that's beside the point) and don't understand what's happening to their cars, or simply don't care what's happening to their cars is ridiculous. It's simply not within the realm of likelihood that every tune that Matt has ever done has been bad. He wouldn't have the (mostly, until recently) good reputation he's had on multiple forums, or the customer base that he does, and to put it bluntly, more cars would have simply blown up. On top of this, there are cars that are known to be OK, with safe tunes and getting the results that the owner wanted.

If you're going to call those of us who have TH tunes and are happy with them idiots, come out and say it. You're entitled to your opinion and I can certainly understand the justification for your opinion. However, just because you've had those results does not mean that this is the experience that everyone else is going to have.

(I could be eating my words once I have my LV done - and if it turns out I'm on the side of the fence with the 'bad' tunes, then I'll work with Matt as much as I can to fix that until we get to the point where he can't or won't, at which point I guess it's off to S&J, but that doesn't mean that everyone else with a TH tune is doomed to having their car explode...)

[bass_straitener]

Edit: missed the quote. This was in response to Bruce.

I'm intending on LV'ing, organising to borrow a Tactrix cable.

However, I have to say here I'm getting a bit sick of the attitude that's developing here and is very obvious in the thread on Rexnet...

Now, I am not disputing the fact that you've had issues with the service provided to you by Matt or the resultant tune, I don't for a moment expect you to be coming on here spreading blatant lies, so it's obvious there are problems. It's also obvious that there are a not-insignificant amount of other people with problems as well.

However, the implication that the only people who are not having issues are either n00bs (I *am*, but that's beside the point) and don't understand what's happening to their cars, or simply don't care what's happening to their cars is ridiculous. It's simply not within the realm of likelihood that every tune that Matt has ever done has been bad. He wouldn't have the (mostly, until recently) good reputation he's had on multiple forums, or the customer base that he does, and to put it bluntly, more cars would have simply blown up. On top of this, there are cars that are known to be OK, with safe tunes and getting the results that the owner wanted.

If you're going to call those of us who have TH tunes and are happy with them idiots, come out and say it. You're entitled to your opinion and I can certainly understand the justification for your opinion. However, just because you've had those results does not mean that this is the experience that everyone else is going to have.

(I could be eating my words once I have my LV done - and if it turns out I'm on the side of the fence with the 'bad' tunes, then I'll work with Matt as much as I can to fix that until we get to the point where he can't or won't, at which point I guess it's off to S&J, but that doesn't mean that everyone else with a TH tune is doomed to having their car explode...)

Sorry Ben, if I offended you. Was merely a tongue in cheek comment and wasn't meant to call into question the happy throttlehappy customers intelligence. Perhaps the smiley was not big enough.

[bigBADbenny]

It's very hard to take you serious watching you chase your tail, panic about your tune, reflash a stock tune, flash back, not revealing your LV's, asking to test ghost issues, then suck up like there's no tomorrow while hoping for some sort of "end result".
So is the VBG-1 being "over accurate" causing some sort of issue for you as well now?
All of these issues occurring with your tune on what seems to be an almost stock car?

Time to maybe wake up, or keep doing what you are doing for however long it takes....

Sorry if this is off topic:
Thanks for your concern, I always take your advice on board!

Just to clarify, the stock re-flash was to confirm if the AVCS issue as discussed elsewhere was or wasn't tune related.
It was confirmed as not being the tune and that's a discussion for that thread where I'm still exploring the intrigue...

The VBG1 is confirmed as being more accurate on transients than logging or analogue gauges - this is great, not an issue, as I want my max boost set conservatively because VF46/stockness/daily.
It reads around 2psi "over" the logged value but I'd trust it more...

So the only issue was getting Matt to account for some zorst mods and urging him to make DBW amd max boost settings more conservative.
Matt eventually got the original tune request "message" for a daily driver dad basketball taxi mobile.
My guess is that he's not used to that sort of customer who wants less all out performance.

And yes it should be a reasonably simple air/fuel/fire focused tune.

But as we have seen aspects of Matt's tune may still be a work in progress so we shall see...
I'll keep researching & learning with the help of the forum etc.

The bottom line for me is that tuning and tunes is the kind of "black box" secret knowledge I just cannot stand!
As with most such things there is a good reason for that, it's complex stuff with little or no room for error.
Like Bruce et al, I hope to broaden my knowledge about tuning through study & research, and ultimately, cross the threshold and DIY even more of the process.

As for end results, I've been driving my end result with great pleasure for the last 6 months, so what, if it, like my car and knowledge base, is a work in progress?

[Kekotic]

Seems the people who log and LV their tunes seem to be having all the problems.

Whilst the people who don't seem to be problem and worry free.

The easy solution here would be for all the people who log and LV their tunes/cars just stop.

I don't have any problems and I take an LV and about 5 logs every single weekend. Most timing being pulled I have ever seen was 1.7 degrees, and only once have I had 2 sections of an LV pulling timing.

Stop with all the generalising and spiteful comments Bruce, it's pathetic.

[bass_straitener]

I don't have any problems and I take an LV and about 5 logs every single weekend. Most timing being pulled I have ever seen was 1.7 degrees, and only once have I had 2 sections of an LV pulling timing.

Stop with all the generalising and spiteful comments Bruce, it's pathetic.

How long have you been tuning with Matt for Kieran? 3 months?

And still, you're taking 5 logs per weekend and an LV. And still your seeing FLKC, the second stage of knock correction, FBKC being the first.

You're taking 5 logs per weekend with about 24 different parameters being logged. Let me just let you know now, your logged information is useless. You have too much time between refresh to not be able to tune anything with that info. Most tuners will ask for specific things logged to dial in specific areas of your tune. At 24 parameters your refresh rate is so slow you're missing most of the knock being logged too, in fact on any meaninful attention.

And for someone who emailed me to check their AF corrections are not FLKC I'm not even sure you know what you're logging and why?

You even questioned me why your RPM at idle was high at idle when cold and didn't know the reason till I showed you the table.

Why didn't you contact your beloved tuner then? I'll give you the answer, you were frustrated about how long it would take to get an answer and you may not believe the answer.

I can only guess the reason for the spiteful post. I didn't let you drive a true 200kw car on Friday.

You're frustrated but lack the funds to take action. You're logging every weekend but seeing no real change to your LV and your car stutters coming on boost, economy promised is no where near delivered and your MAF is still not within the +- 5%. All this after 3 months or so. Oh, you've become an expert in MAF cleaning.

I did apologise to Ben as the comment was purely tongue in cheek. I've PMed Ben an apology as well as I don't know him too well and was a bit sad he took it personally.

But you who knows me pretty well would think I'm pathetic really takes the cake.

Best conserve your mental resources for what lies ahead for you in your tuning caper.

[<GB>]

im jealious i didnt get a drive

hey Kieran didnt your car have some fail safe features removed from your tune to do with boost??? come clean man dont hide in the bushes then hit out at bruce saying he is pathetic.... the cheek when you ask him to help you... dont burn your bridges man!!

[bass_straitener]

im jealious i didnt get a drive

hey Kieran didnt your car have some fail safe features removed from your tune to do with boost??? come clean man dont hide in the bushes then hit out at bruce saying he is pathetic.... the cheek when you ask him to help you... dont burn your bridges man!!

Oh yes how could I forget P0244 disabled to not inconvenience the customer and denied by Bryce that Kido tuning would do such a thing. But Matt and Kieran and Ben, BBB, know the real answer.

[owen]

I'm jealous too!! Looking forward to a launch -> speed limit against u

Kieran..u sure talk a lot of shit for somebody who's too scared to drive his car any harder than an Asian mum on her way to buy rice from box hill. If u have nothing nice to say to somebody who has gone out of his way to help u in the past, probably better to not say anything at all imo.

[alexeiwoody]

Hey guys,

Please keep your personal stuff to pm, although there is truth in what everyone is saying. Would be a shame to have this removed, because you guys get too personal.


As for kido Matt - his tune wasn't perfect. It was ok, not perfect. He's not a bad tuner, just not the best.

He doesn't hide, he keeps replying and keeps trying to help his customers. Noone can make a perfect road tuned car, compared to a dyno. You'd be stupid to expect it to be perfect.

Matt tests his tunes to make sure they're safe. Most of the knock we see is minor, similar to stock.
Bruce got a really bad tune, but that's not the case with most of the tunes.

Matt will help you work through any issues you find, but you should invest in a dyno tune. With him or someone else. Dyno > road.

Matt's tunes for me were mostly very safe with almost no knock in s. Only in s#. He's not a noob when it comes to tuning.

It seems to me Matt's still learning to tune our cars, hopefully his tunes keep getting better.

In the meantime I'm going with someone else to have something to compare Matt's stuff to.

That's my 2c. Thanks for reading

[WheelieBin]

...too scared to drive his car any harder than an Asian mum on her way to buy rice from box hill...

(not having a go at Kieran... but that's funny!)

[dazzz168]

I figured I may as well have a say in here as this thread is way off topic now, so my apologies in advance Rome.

An experienced tuner should be able to dial in tunes on stockish cars within a few revisions. It's simply ridiculous that people have to go through numerous revisions and in certain cases still have a tune that still performs under expectation and/or has issues such as knock, poor fuel economy, and other strange behavior... And haiving to wait for someone to make their way to your state to get a fix (that may or may not work) is absolutely absurd, WTH are you suppose to do in the meantime? Walk? If a tuner were experienced and knew what he was doing, it wouldn't take much to deliver a tune that's safe and delivers what was promised.

If you find yourself having to revise your tune every week and have to worry about it every time you turn that key to go for a drive, then I advise you go find a tuner that will give you peace of mind. It's your car guys, you bought it to enjoy it, don't forget that.

[Rome_BRZ]

If I had the ban stick I would fuck you all with it.

[dr20t]

I'm gonna throw this in.

For those that don't know my car: 2.0 litre turbo, 5eat, eflex fuel. 255kw atw, 12.21 quarter mile.

I log my car once a month or so. LV every week.

My Logs after my dyno tune was clear. ive seen two revisions since then which had extremely minor knock (0.31) in two cells. Latest log of latest revision shows 1.01 degree of flkc at 2.36 g/sec load at 3200-3330 rpm (three different logs)

That is it.

LV shows one cell of 1.01 degree flkc in one cell.

Maf scaling is slightly out at lower loads. I'm working on a fix for this myself. My motor comes out in a couple of weeks so I'm leaning to tune on it couldn't care if it blows up.

I could've sent a revision request to Matt but couldn't be bothered to be honest.

Now as for some of the other things coming out - I'm frustrated with the excuses and told Matt point blank he needs to slow down and also fix his ways. It's not on. I also feel for these people that have blown motors etc. If it was clearly a result of the tune then Matt has something to answer do.

In Bruce's instance, his experience with Matt was not good. And the ongoing revisions shouldn't have needed to happen. But Matt keeps pointing to mechanical faults causing it. I can't see how msr was able to sort it without (as Bruce claims) any mechanical changes being made. If this is correct then obviously the tune was fked and its a good thing Bruce found someone else to tune his car. The relationship between driver and tuner had broken down anyway so this was probably a good thing.

Which leads to my next point. The relationship you have with the tuner is key. And trust needs to be reciprocated on both sides. If Matt is feeding bullshit, then that will end the trust for his clients.

I personally am a little disappointed with Matt for the fact that some of the claims he has made haven't been backed up, as well as seeing some of these other forums and outlandish posts / claims he has made. A couple of days ago I was livid as I genuinely thought he was a good bloke and then all these claims started surfacing (not about his tuning but his character and integrity). I've calmed down a little bit and spoken to Matt. For now he has pacified me. I checked the tune and the things I was concerned about and I was jumping the gun a bit. I guess I was taken aback by some of the claims coming out and was not knowing whether I could believe the claims he makes.

To be fair, my tune has been pretty good. Drivability is fine as is power and fuel consumption, other than the boost cut issue in fourth gear. I put this overboosting down to an inability to taper boost as I'm running and ebc. Maybe this was a blessing in disguise for me as it seems the problems with Matt's tune relates to the turbo dynamics and boost control.

The bad mouthing of other tuners is also something I'm not a fan of. Especially when it's blatant bullshit. Like Eric from tp - if Matt is bad mouthing him (which I haven't evidenced) then that's not right cos from what I've seen Eric has a great reputation. Integrity is number one and if Matt fails to meet my integrity expectations as a person (let alone as a tuner) then for me he will be axed.

However ill say this here - everyone seems to have become a tuning guru and is using this as an opportunity to have a swipe. People that are unqualified are making massive assumptions on other people's behalf when they have no right to. Tuning is fkn hard. I can probably tune my own car to a certain degree with some guidance from the gurus. I understand the drivers of the ecu logic. However wen it comes to something like this I defer to the professionals for a reason. Just like I can do ALL mechanical work, but have let phat gt : Michael at garage 88 do alot of it for me. Convenience and trust. Plus i can't tig weld. And he has done a lot more subie mods than I so I'll defer to his expertise. Will he get everything right? Fk no. Will I? Again no. But I guarantee within some degree of certainty that his strike rate will be higher than most out there, and its the safer option. If he does make a mistake or doesn't know something am I gonna crucify him because I read on a thread on www that so and so did this and that???. No cos it's not feasible for everyone to know everything and it's a lack of respect.

The good thing with Michael is if he doesn't know something he won't profess to knowing it. And I've seen him ask questions of his more knowledgable clients on things he may not know. That's something I respect. But even he gets things wrong cos he's human and hasn't seen everything. But for someone to come on here and chastise others for their choice or cos they don't know everything is ridiculous!!

Im the first to admit I trust people probably a little too much. But I won't let anyone work on my car before I verify the claims. I first heard of Matt on romraider when I saw some of his work and was impressed with his auto dbw maps etc. And his willingness to help. When Bruce mentioned he was on here tuning I jumped on the bandwagon.

I was thoroughly impressed with the change in my car. From a sloppy shifting and laggy auto which lost Convertor lock up at 5000rpm and managed a best quarter mile of 14.5 seconds with all the mods I had, to what it is now - no mechanical changes except I went to eflex fuel. Granted my car wasn't boosting above 14 psi when I ran the 14.5 due to boost controller hose leak but it was still a massive difference.

Knock has been minimal - eflex probably masks this. I checked his timing tables. They are conservative for a two litre but I believe timing tables weren't optimized for my factory 9.5:1 static compression. Is it the best tune in the world- probably not. Does it do the job for now? Yes.

Test will be my new setup. Matt will be retuning it with oversight from Scott from insight who I trust. This will ensure if nothing more that ill have two sets of eyes over it incase one misses something. Matt wont mind this im sure but even if he did, this is the way I want it.

I have had a chat to a few people on here about my frustrations and concerns, including the man of the hour himself (Matt). If my concerns and requests aren't verified ill be sure to voice them openly. But until then I'm happy to work with Matt to rectify his reputation with some people. At least for his credibility sake.

Everyone makes mistakes, and its rare for someone to make an admission of guilt in the automotive world. But it's one thing to admit and another to do something about it. I hope Matt does the latter. I also would like to hear his version on why the checkered history on other forums. It could well be just like everything else in the interwebz where you don't know who is spinning and who is real.

But if I stick to the facts here they are:

Minimal knock on my tune
Iam is still sound
Afr's are ok
Matt has been receptive to my standards. Not instant or even within 48 hours but I don't mind. Others probably need and deserve faster response time
Power is ok.
Boost cut issue in fourth gets to me but will hopefully be fixed soon

That's it. My two dollars and thirty two cents.

Mick

[<GB>]

if i had one id ban bad tuners and make everyone post learning veiws in this thread!!