False knock at 2000 rpm?

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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby CarDoc » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:55 pm

I've been reading through this and have a bit of input.

You can not tune around mechanical issues. You have to find and repair the mechanical before the tune. Otherwise your just "spinning your wheels" and wasting time.

Irregular and inacurate information from the owner doesn't help in resolve. Its like going to the doctor and leaving out what you think is unimportant, but to the doctor it is key information.

There are plenty of references on this thread that recommended checking the mechanical funtion of the engine. And yes, a knock sensor on a Subaru is sensitive to noise. It will even pick up heat shield vibration.

The fifth gear @ 65Kph was an indication also of a mechanical issue when the fuel and ignition was altered. The car was "lugging". Too much load.

I don't believe the wastegate was the total issue. Either the true cause is being withheld or it hasn't been located. A wastegate flutter would cause irregularities in boost which would show up in logs. If the AVCS was not operating properly, why? Lack of oil? Incorrect weight? Electrical issue? Mechanical within the actuator? The flutter may have been causing a knock retard but the cause of the flutter has not been rationalized properly. Was there a vacuum leak to the wastegate?

Five Minutes is a stretch. Within this post, Kido makes suggestions towards mechanical outside the relm of wategate flutter long before the 5 minute fix which leads me to believe that Sheik was fishing for answers trying not to spend any money and trying to guess at what the problem is. (Which I believe will rear its ugly head again if it was not truly located.)

Any modifications to a vehicle need to be complete before a tune. Modifications after a tune necessitates a retune, no matter how small you think it effects the performance. When mechanical, electronic control or actuator issues arise, these need attention and repair before proceeding. When I ran into mechanical issues on the OE 3.0, I informed Ed that we need to stop until I have it resolved and begin again. In my case, it was quicker and easier to replace the engine entirely, not to mention the cost factor. Replacement with a JDM was 1/3 the cost of a rebuild.

Yes, building a modified car is costly. I have $14k USD in my build. I planned, figured cost, researched, calculated and calculated again what I intended to do long before I started the actual build. Sometimes you can get by with staged builds to stretch out the outflow of cash, but regardless, you will put out until its correct.

Ed did a great job with my build. He assisted in accomplishing something no one has been able to do before now and worked long hours on this to help me complete the car. All on a stock ECM. I am not running any EMS. I only expected Ed to handle the programming while I covered all the mechanical. When an issue arose that was mechanical, it was time to stop the tune, take care of the mechanics then resume to the next step. This is just common sense.

I can understand the frustration in trying to get the car corrected. I also understand that the whole issue was handled in a poor fashion by the owner. If you can't budget for proper operations to achieve your goal, put it on hold until you can. And I don't know anyone that can diagnose a vehicle properly without putting their hands on it. I get close most of the time, but I have also been building and repairing vehicles for almost 26 years. No car has ever beat me. And I am never wrong in my diagnostics.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:47 am

CarDoc wrote:I've been reading through this and have a bit of input.

You can not tune around mechanical issues. You have to find and repair the mechanical before the tune. Otherwise your just "spinning your wheels" and wasting time.
Irregular and inacurate information from the owner doesn't help in resolve. Its like going to the doctor and leaving out what you think is unimportant, but to the doctor it is key information.
There are plenty of references on this thread that recommended checking the mechanical funtion of the engine. And yes, a knock sensor on a Subaru is sensitive to noise. It will even pick up heat shield vibration.
The fifth gear @ 65Kph was an indication also of a mechanical issue when the fuel and ignition was altered. The car was "lugging". Too much load.
I don't believe the wastegate was the total issue. Either the true cause is being withheld or it hasn't been located. A wastegate flutter would cause irregularities in boost which would show up in logs. If the AVCS was not operating properly, why? Lack of oil? Incorrect weight? Electrical issue? Mechanical within the actuator? The flutter may have been causing a knock retard but the cause of the flutter has not been rationalized properly. Was there a vacuum leak to the wastegate?
Five Minutes is a stretch. Within this post, Kido makes suggestions towards mechanical outside the relm of wategate flutter long before the 5 minute fix which leads me to believe that Sheik was fishing for answers trying not to spend any money and trying to guess at what the problem is. (Which I believe will rear its ugly head again if it was not truly located.)
Any modifications to a vehicle need to be complete before a tune. Modifications after a tune necessitates a retune, no matter how small you think it effects the performance. When mechanical, electronic control or actuator issues arise, these need attention and repair before proceeding. When I ran into mechanical issues on the OE 3.0, I informed Ed that we need to stop until I have it resolved and begin again. In my case, it was quicker and easier to replace the engine entirely, not to mention the cost factor. Replacement with a JDM was 1/3 the cost of a rebuild.
Yes, building a modified car is costly. I have $14k USD in my build. I planned, figured cost, researched, calculated and calculated again what I intended to do long before I started the actual build. Sometimes you can get by with staged builds to stretch out the outflow of cash, but regardless, you will put out until its correct.
Ed did a great job with my build. He assisted in accomplishing something no one has been able to do before now and worked long hours on this to help me complete the car. All on a stock ECM. I am not running any EMS. I only expected Ed to handle the programming while I covered all the mechanical. When an issue arose that was mechanical, it was time to stop the tune, take care of the mechanics then resume to the next step. This is just common sense.

I can understand the frustration in trying to get the car corrected. I also understand that the whole issue was handled in a poor fashion by the owner. If you can't budget for proper operations to achieve your goal, put it on hold until you can. And I don't know anyone that can diagnose a vehicle properly without putting their hands on it. I get close most of the time, but I have also been building and repairing vehicles for almost 26 years. No car has ever beat me. And I am never wrong in my diagnostics.


I provided an independant tune initially to rectify the issue when car was stock to see if there was any issue ;) Transmission shifts were also a huge issue to Sheik_Jabooti which is also rectified :) Not having to budget for expensive mechanical repairs meant exhaust mods were possible. Mechanics here charge $100+/hr, $200+/hr for some dealers... a one day fact finding mission to diagnose possible mechanical issues gets expensive quickly! Hence why I provided my base tune as I know what values to expect(see forum member Shav's results)
Issue, base on logs was too much AVCS on lean spool, sure the timing may have been low and even lower timing(from knock correction or pulling timing in the tune) would have made it worse, purely as it generates more exhaust manifold heat making the WG more prone to chattering :) Hot exhaust gas tries to expand, yet the stock dump pipe was a low back pressure due to low rpm such that a weak wastegate becomes similar to a leaky BOV, just creeps open :)

As stated, the knock ears could not detect knock when car was stock. Knock was consistent in the 'spool range' yet no knock under vacuum, peak torque or peak power. I also lowered the FLKC load range to be lower than stock :)

I was a regular on a local forum for all car enthusiasts where I was doing the Technical section. Diagnosed multiple cars via online symptoms, even to the point of diagnosing a spigot bearing that had not been removed during an engine transplant, even simple stuff the mechanics who had done the work had missed.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby west_minist » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:48 am

You stated you had logs that stated avcs was too much. Such nonsense. But on a different note, you have not stated logs where avcs was adjusted to the point way below stock values and still the same issues. Again it highlight other issues. You state lean, yet in the pinging area of great concern the afr was below 12 and test were down to high 11's to see what it could be.

When I tune and I see a problem that I consider more serious, I focus on that. If you have spent time reviewing auto operations with just the right dbw tune, that's great for the customer. In tuning and what I offer to David, was a tune to just take care of the gas. That is more so ignition reducton due to gas and some gas Savings. I did more than I usually do to make him happy by tuning dbw, avcs and increasing boost by 1psi. I had the time do so.

As I stated to David, the reason behind this pinging and the increase in wastegate duty cycle a tab bit was my concern.

Let me state here. I am not in argument for business or tuner bashment, but to clearly and precisely stated the issues.

Knock of up to -8 can be seriously heard. -2.11 is just audible to the ear. This wasn't noted which highlighted there was no knock but mechanical noise was triggering the knock sensor. Usual knock in the lower region can be sure to valve slapping the valve seat. Like I said before, I don't see Subaru producing a car or cars this bad and tuning horrific to allow this. I personally will not compensate for such issues if the car is Stock with a stock block. To me its hiding serious issues that will show it head at a later date.

Also a bov leak is not like a wg leak becsuse the car runs a little richer because of MAF based Engine Load.

David is happy with your service. I wish him well.

Thank you very much.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:53 pm

Neither am I trying to start a tuning argument :) I provided the tune based on the DBW fix issue David had :) I was asked to check some logs to determine if it was true knock since there was no knock on a knock microphone at the workshop.
The Cruise to Non-Cruise transitioning table means from low AVCS to 40 degrees AVCS during spool, AVCS is oil pump driven so high AVCS during low rpm spool where oil pressure is low already, dragging oil pressure away from the crank bearings to feed a high AVCS target which if it had been true knock on crank bearings is obviously bad. AVCS needs to meet the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine, which changes at different load sites as well, as seen in the stock tune and the H6 tune.
As demonstrated to David, the knock was worse when fuel was added(unburnt fuel in the manifold) or timing reduced(unburnt fuel in manifold again) at low piston inertia speeds which is one way to diagnose a faulty actuator. Unfortunately, an actuator is not something that can be logged for its 'position'

I was referring to the BOV leak in that vacuum on the back of the piston from the inlet manifold, with pressure on the intercooler side of the piston can push the piston open :) Same thing on the wastegate, exhaust manifold pressure pushing on the turbine side of the wastegate flap, dump pipe side of the flap being low pressure causing the valve to bleed open and then shut as the manifold pressure subsides.

This is the number one reason why TD04 WRX tuning benefits from tightening the wastegate actuator a few turns to stop the chatter/noise. A lot of WRX owners would know this noise to put it into perspective.

west_minist wrote:You stated you had logs that stated avcs was too much. Such nonsense. But on a different note, you have not stated logs where avcs was adjusted to the point way below stock values and still the same issues. Again it highlight other issues. You state lean, yet in the pinging area of great concern the afr was below 12 and test were down to high 11's to see what it could be.

When I tune and I see a problem that I consider more serious, I focus on that. If you have spent time reviewing auto operations with just the right dbw tune, that's great for the customer. In tuning and what I offer to David, was a tune to just take care of the gas. That is more so ignition reducton due to gas and some gas Savings. I did more than I usually do to make him happy by tuning dbw, avcs and increasing boost by 1psi. I had the time do so.

As I stated to David, the reason behind this pinging and the increase in wastegate duty cycle a tab bit was my concern.

Let me state here. I am not in argument for business or tuner bashment, but to clearly and precisely stated the issues.

Knock of up to -8 can be seriously heard. -2.11 is just audible to the ear. This wasn't noted which highlighted there was no knock but mechanical noise was triggering the knock sensor. Usual knock in the lower region can be sure to valve slapping the valve seat. Like I said before, I don't see Subaru producing a car or cars this bad and tuning horrific to allow this. I personally will not compensate for such issues if the car is Stock with a stock block. To me its hiding serious issues that will show it head at a later date.

Also a bov leak is not like a wg leak becsuse the car runs a little richer because of MAF based Engine Load.

David is happy with your service. I wish him well.

Thank you very much.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby west_minist » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:19 pm

Kido, please. If this was so, the stock Subaru map would have had this same 40 in such a low load of the map, even much low than one would expect, but one can understand why.

In reference to the stock tune, every serious tuner knows that the AVCS is not optimised for serious power on the car the mods it have. FYI http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1078290 and I am very well aware of the VE of the engine. As I stated to David and also on the forum. During testing many things were changes to truly identify the reason for Knock that could not be determine before a knock mic was used. David at the time could not relate if he could actually hear the engine pinging. When all tests were completed and due to my I.T work load, I was convince that the problem was not 1) Injector issues due to flow or blockage (running rich) 2) Ring issues since no oil was burning or in the intake 3) Spark plug issues 4) Coil Pack issues, etc It then boil down to some resonance was associated with this rpm range. I was not about masking the problem after hearing how noise the engine was and also knowing that Subaru engines does not do this in numbers and it needed mechanically look at. I have never ever came across in my tuning history an Actuator giving issues and produce this problem. Sorry!!!

I am not familiar with Aussie WRX issues, but the EDM. SDM and JDM wg issues I found are 1) wg not set enough to achieve boost due to ECU programming and extended wg arm 2) ECU trying to control the boost from overshooting due to wg arm a little tight. This is mostly predominate with WRX owners have a cat back exhaust and a filter upgrade.

Thanks for the info and in the long run, David is happy with your tuning, especially for the Auto tranny.

All the best!

West_Minist


KiDo_Tuning wrote:Neither am I trying to start a tuning argument :) I provided the tune based on the DBW fix issue David had :) I was asked to check some logs to determine if it was true knock since there was no knock on a knock microphone at the workshop.
The Cruise to Non-Cruise transitioning table means from low AVCS to 40 degrees AVCS during spool, AVCS is oil pump driven so high AVCS during low rpm spool where oil pressure is low already, dragging oil pressure away from the crank bearings to feed a high AVCS target which if it had been true knock on crank bearings is obviously bad. AVCS needs to meet the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine, which changes at different load sites as well, as seen in the stock tune and the H6 tune.
As demonstrated to David, the knock was worse when fuel was added(unburnt fuel in the manifold) or timing reduced(unburnt fuel in manifold again) at low piston inertia speeds which is one way to diagnose a faulty actuator. Unfortunately, an actuator is not something that can be logged for its 'position'

I was referring to the BOV leak in that vacuum on the back of the piston from the inlet manifold, with pressure on the intercooler side of the piston can push the piston open :) Same thing on the wastegate, exhaust manifold pressure pushing on the turbine side of the wastegate flap, dump pipe side of the flap being low pressure causing the valve to bleed open and then shut as the manifold pressure subsides.

This is the number one reason why TD04 WRX tuning benefits from tightening the wastegate actuator a few turns to stop the chatter/noise. A lot of WRX owners would know this noise to put it into perspective.

west_minist wrote:You stated you had logs that stated avcs was too much. Such nonsense. But on a different note, you have not stated logs where avcs was adjusted to the point way below stock values and still the same issues. Again it highlight other issues. You state lean, yet in the pinging area of great concern the afr was below 12 and test were down to high 11's to see what it could be.

When I tune and I see a problem that I consider more serious, I focus on that. If you have spent time reviewing auto operations with just the right dbw tune, that's great for the customer. In tuning and what I offer to David, was a tune to just take care of the gas. That is more so ignition reducton due to gas and some gas Savings. I did more than I usually do to make him happy by tuning dbw, avcs and increasing boost by 1psi. I had the time do so.

As I stated to David, the reason behind this pinging and the increase in wastegate duty cycle a tab bit was my concern.

Let me state here. I am not in argument for business or tuner bashment, but to clearly and precisely stated the issues.

Knock of up to -8 can be seriously heard. -2.11 is just audible to the ear. This wasn't noted which highlighted there was no knock but mechanical noise was triggering the knock sensor. Usual knock in the lower region can be sure to valve slapping the valve seat. Like I said before, I don't see Subaru producing a car or cars this bad and tuning horrific to allow this. I personally will not compensate for such issues if the car is Stock with a stock block. To me its hiding serious issues that will show it head at a later date.

Also a bov leak is not like a wg leak becsuse the car runs a little richer because of MAF based Engine Load.

David is happy with your service. I wish him well.

Thank you very much.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:45 pm

Notice stock AVCS has it falling away from 1.1g/rev to 1.6g/rev? which is to provide oil pressure as engine load increases as the cylinder fills past 100% VE in this region. Under manifold vacuum/light load(by essence, around 50% VE as a full chamber is not required to overcome wind drag and road friction) oil pressure is not an issue hence the high AVCS to induce an EGR effect for exhaust emissions.
Yes, I re-read the thread to see what was done to diagnose but I provided a tune prior to the knock microphone being used and David worrying about having to sell his car due to pending engine failure.

Seen SADM, JDM, EDM and USDM WRX's with WG issues, I even have a 'test' to determine how much preload is being used. In Davids case, I setup SI Drive as a Boost Controller, ran wastegate pressure and chatter was worse with laggy spool

I know the AVCS NASIOC thread well, I have quite a few posts in there :)

west_minist wrote:Kido, please. If this was so, the stock Subaru map would have had this same 40 in such a low load of the map, even much low than one would expect, but one can understand why.

In reference to the stock tune, every serious tuner knows that the AVCS is not optimised for serious power on the car the mods it have. FYI http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1078290 and I am very well aware of the VE of the engine. As I stated to David and also on the forum. During testing many things were changes to truly identify the reason for Knock that could not be determine before a knock mic was used. David at the time could not relate if he could actually hear the engine pinging. When all tests were completed and due to my I.T work load, I was convince that the problem was not 1) Injector issues due to flow or blockage (running rich) 2) Ring issues since no oil was burning or in the intake 3) Spark plug issues 4) Coil Pack issues, etc It then boil down to some resonance was associated with this rpm range. I was not about masking the problem after hearing how noise the engine was and also knowing that Subaru engines does not do this in numbers and it needed mechanically look at. I have never ever came across in my tuning history an Actuator giving issues and produce this problem. Sorry!!!

I am not familiar with Aussie WRX issues, but the EDM. SDM and JDM wg issues I found are 1) wg not set enough to achieve boost due to ECU programming and extended wg arm 2) ECU trying to control the boost from overshooting due to wg arm a little tight. This is mostly predominate with WRX owners have a cat back exhaust and a filter upgrade.

Thanks for the info and in the long run, David is happy with your tuning, especially for the Auto tranny.

All the best!

West_Minist


KiDo_Tuning wrote:Neither am I trying to start a tuning argument :) I provided the tune based on the DBW fix issue David had :) I was asked to check some logs to determine if it was true knock since there was no knock on a knock microphone at the workshop.
The Cruise to Non-Cruise transitioning table means from low AVCS to 40 degrees AVCS during spool, AVCS is oil pump driven so high AVCS during low rpm spool where oil pressure is low already, dragging oil pressure away from the crank bearings to feed a high AVCS target which if it had been true knock on crank bearings is obviously bad. AVCS needs to meet the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine, which changes at different load sites as well, as seen in the stock tune and the H6 tune.
As demonstrated to David, the knock was worse when fuel was added(unburnt fuel in the manifold) or timing reduced(unburnt fuel in manifold again) at low piston inertia speeds which is one way to diagnose a faulty actuator. Unfortunately, an actuator is not something that can be logged for its 'position'

I was referring to the BOV leak in that vacuum on the back of the piston from the inlet manifold, with pressure on the intercooler side of the piston can push the piston open :) Same thing on the wastegate, exhaust manifold pressure pushing on the turbine side of the wastegate flap, dump pipe side of the flap being low pressure causing the valve to bleed open and then shut as the manifold pressure subsides.

This is the number one reason why TD04 WRX tuning benefits from tightening the wastegate actuator a few turns to stop the chatter/noise. A lot of WRX owners would know this noise to put it into perspective.

west_minist wrote:You stated you had logs that stated avcs was too much. Such nonsense. But on a different note, you have not stated logs where avcs was adjusted to the point way below stock values and still the same issues. Again it highlight other issues. You state lean, yet in the pinging area of great concern the afr was below 12 and test were down to high 11's to see what it could be.

When I tune and I see a problem that I consider more serious, I focus on that. If you have spent time reviewing auto operations with just the right dbw tune, that's great for the customer. In tuning and what I offer to David, was a tune to just take care of the gas. That is more so ignition reducton due to gas and some gas Savings. I did more than I usually do to make him happy by tuning dbw, avcs and increasing boost by 1psi. I had the time do so.

As I stated to David, the reason behind this pinging and the increase in wastegate duty cycle a tab bit was my concern.

Let me state here. I am not in argument for business or tuner bashment, but to clearly and precisely stated the issues.

Knock of up to -8 can be seriously heard. -2.11 is just audible to the ear. This wasn't noted which highlighted there was no knock but mechanical noise was triggering the knock sensor. Usual knock in the lower region can be sure to valve slapping the valve seat. Like I said before, I don't see Subaru producing a car or cars this bad and tuning horrific to allow this. I personally will not compensate for such issues if the car is Stock with a stock block. To me its hiding serious issues that will show it head at a later date.

Also a bov leak is not like a wg leak becsuse the car runs a little richer because of MAF based Engine Load.

David is happy with your service. I wish him well.

Thank you very much.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby west_minist » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:01 pm

Its done so as you know for emissions. Also any tuner would have some postings and again the stock map is never up hold and change in tuning. So your statements on it does not fit the postings in the forum which is there for all to see and what usually happen by all tuners.

On that nore, it was and is great you have a mic to check for knock. Like I stated, I don't MASK issues and will not accommodate for issues unless I have too. I treat the root problem and not the causes and my recommendation for any of my customers - locally or internally, see a mechanic to have a full review on the engine.

Like I stated, I am happy you have resolve his issues and you have a happy customer, especially in DBW performance on the automatic.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:46 am

west_minist wrote:Its done so as you know for emissions. Also any tuner would have some postings and again the stock map is never up hold and change in tuning. So your statements on it does not fit the postings in the forum which is there for all to see and what usually happen by all tuners.

On that nore, it was and is great you have a mic to check for knock. Like I stated, I don't MASK issues and will not accommodate for issues unless I have too. I treat the root problem and not the causes and my recommendation for any of my customers - locally or internally, see a mechanic to have a full review on the engine.

Like I stated, I am happy you have resolve his issues and you have a happy customer, especially in DBW performance on the automatic.


My apologies, I never implied you masked the issue(even if you implied to David I masked the issue) as it was obvious in the logs that an issue existed. It could have been quite easy to raise the FLKC and FBKC load or rpm limits to mask the problem(for reference, I lowered the minimum RPM and load limits plus raised the maximum load limits and still knock free)

I also tuned the car remotely, sight unseen and diagnosed the issue. The root issue was exhaust turbine heat and backpressure in the manifold :)

Either way, the wastegate chatter is gone :)
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby Sheik Jabooti » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:54 pm

OK as the OP I thought it was relevant for me to summarise this story. This is really just stating the facts from my perspective.

Here is the timeline of events:

1) Engaged XRT for his $300 Easter Special:
(viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15993&p=217791&hilit=easter+special#p217791)
west_minist wrote:Easter Tuning Special
The following maps will be tuned:
  • Boost increase by 0.5psi - 1psi - All Around
  • Wastegate maps to allow for 0.5psi-1psi boost increase
  • Fuel Maps
  • Ignition maps
  • DBW - Street Tuned
  • Other minor additional maps


2) XRT experienced this 2000rpm knock in my logs and could not fix it after over 30 !!! tuning cycles :shock: . He really had no idea what it was. In addition his DBW on the auto was mangled and quite undriveable. Again, he really had no idea how to fix this.
3) XRT advised the car was a lemon and that the engine was bad and should be sold.
4) OP stressed...reached out to liberty forum for help/advice. On advice of XRT saw 3 mechanics and $400 later every mechanic said the car is fine and sounds and drives like a normal liberty.
5) XRT not convinced and still saying the car is no good.
5) Matt from Kido Tuning kindly offered some assistance. One look at logs and suspected wastegate chatter. Also sent a sample ROM to show how the DBW should be tuned. Thanks Matt! :)
6) XRT gave up on being able to tune my car. Final result was my fuel use went UP :shock: from low 14L/100km to 15.6!!! I had no DBW changes and a crappy tune.
7) After a month trying to drive this XRT tune I talked to Matt about a tune. He sent me his base tune ...this was a "safe" high fuel tune but still gave better economy than XRT's fuel tuned ROM :shock: !!!
8.) Decided to go all out and get a TBE and Kido_Tune
9) Matt tuned the car, fixed the WG chatter after 5 minutes and finalised the full tune in 3 or 4 ROM flashes. Car has been knock/ping free since and drives like a different car...fantastic gear changes and lots more torque. Really noticeable difference for the better.

That's the facts. I hope there's some lessons in there for the liberty community.
Last edited by Sheik Jabooti on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Started with a Gen2 Outback, then got a MY07 GT Spec.B Manual w Cat Back Exhaust and Verso Tuned, now got 2 kids and a MY07 GT Auto Wagon, Ultrex stealth back exhaust, panel filter, Whiteline Sways all round, Spec.b struts and springs and Kido-Tuned.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby bass_straitener » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:30 pm

Good write up and thanks for sharing your journey and thoughts from a customer view point on the your tune.

Just wondered if you tune with a wideband O2 gauge and boost gauge installed.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby Sheik Jabooti » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:32 pm

bass_straitener wrote:Good write up and thanks for sharing your journey and thoughts from a customer view point on the your tune.

Just wondered if you tune with a wideband O2 gauge and boost gauge installed.


Thanks for the feedback, my main driver is to ensure that the community is informed...that's the whole purpose of the forum really. I plan to do a more formal review a bit later. This will hopefully include some comparison timing maps to show the difference between a good and bad tune.

All readings are taken via the ECU so no boost gauge or wideband. My understanding is that this is fine when doing these near stock setup tunes. Maybe Matt can confirm why he doesn't bother with the gauges. Either way the learning view has been perfectly clean since the tune so double thumbs up. :)
Started with a Gen2 Outback, then got a MY07 GT Spec.B Manual w Cat Back Exhaust and Verso Tuned, now got 2 kids and a MY07 GT Auto Wagon, Ultrex stealth back exhaust, panel filter, Whiteline Sways all round, Spec.b struts and springs and Kido-Tuned.
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby <GB> » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:25 pm

Interesting stuff!! I'm seeing, hearing so many good and shot things in the tuning world...!!
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby bass_straitener » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:45 pm

Well the very situation Matt determined as the cause of the false knock is being examined.

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9192

Let's see what the rest of the world thinks. :)
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:16 pm

bass_straitener wrote:Well the very situation Matt determined as the cause of the false knock is being examined.

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9192

Let's see what the rest of the world thinks. :)


It was discussed on the Cobb forum in the GTR section, same thing ;)
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Re: False knock at 2000 rpm?

Postby Jeffreyy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Sorry but what exactly was the solution to this false knocking ? Thanks :)
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