Guide to tuners, who locks and who doesn't.

[Kekotic]

So basically he hides what his tune is?

[coyote]

With his removals of ECUTEK, he removes the ECUTEK rom and puts your factory one back on.

That sounds like standard Ecutek practice, straight from the MRT playbook and exactly what I was talking about. They tell the customer the car has been reverted back to standard. It has a standard tune but the ECU still cannot be read nor flashed without Ecutek licensed software, but you'll go around in circles for hours trying to get them to admit it.

VERY misleading.

[telemekas]

Tuners in SA that I have had experience with:

Towler Performance: Not locked
Willall Racing: Not locked
Turbo Tune: Not locked

SnJ (EcuTEK): Locked/Advised.
They will unlock EcuTEK ECU (in car or posted) at no cost to original base map.
Open Source can then be used. This may 'not apply' to other EcuTEK sites.

[Jaz]

Chiptorque Ezyflash, I've not used an OBD connector to have a look at the maps.

The system they've employed I suspect would mean that you couldn't "see" their work, as the maps are converted into a different format for storage on the map loading unit.
I would expect that plugging in a scanner would result in it appearing locked, simply because I know Lachlan Riddel (who owns the place) well enough to know that he's an advocate for protecting the tuners IP.

[coyote]

I first met Lachlan about 15 years ago. He's one of the pioneers of aftermarket ecu tuning and is actually hiding what he knows, rather than what he doesn't.

Doesn't mean I like his product, because I don't. Have lots of respect for the man though.

[dr20t]

As a means of update, my ecu wasn't locked as such but required a handshake agreement code to return the ecu back to it's original rom. This worked. Car started and ran - for 30 seconds then bricked up

Ecu is now with Tactrix in the usa being unbricked in order for open source romraider tuning to work

I know for a fact that this is not the first ecu that had bricked up after being flashed by ecutek (I sent 3 ecu's to Tactrix for unbricking including mine)

Mick

[coyote]

For future reference, Lachlan can do exactly what Tatrix are doing for you at the moment.

[dr20t]

Yeah problem was timing. It was supposed to take 2 days to states, two days there then two days back. Its now been eight days and they haven't even arrive there (great Aussie postal services ) so wouldve been better off waiting.

I also found the way to do it using a hertz timer and USB bus port which I could've had a crack at myself but based on the original timing schedule I thought it would be easier to send to them.

[west_minist]

Extreme Racing Tuning
Locked - Yes
Advised - No

Technically this is not correct. The ROM itself simply has the signature changed so that tools like ROMRaider don't recognise it as a readable ROM (hence you think it's locked). Either you can make a new definition for it to cater for the XRT signature, or use a hex editor to change the signature in the binary ROM file back to a normal Subaru one. Either way, it will open up easily.

That's how at least one of the others on the list does it too.

Not exactly sophisticated, but effective in making it inaccessible to virtually every customer.

If you saw his work, you'd know why it was locked (and it wasn't because it was good).

I'll say it again, I don't think there's anything wrong with putting measures in place to protect your work - if the customer gives their informed consent before.

I'm yet to meet a person who was properly advised.

I would be interesting to hear you explain.

Let me go on the record because I don't often and many of the reasons because of forum bs.

Was one of a few tuners who did AVCS research way back and posted results.

I am one of few tuners who tunes the Twin Turbo Legacy

I try to protect my work due to people just passing it on. I also try to protect many customers who are novices from changing stuff, because everyone wants to raise timing or lean fuel. But the main reason is due to ecu swapping since I totally custom tune.

I do not lock the ECU. A customer can download it or reload the stock rom.

Many of my customers except for STI's and WRX, roms are not support and come to me to be tuned. Many just want the car tune and not interested in tuning or tuning their car. If a customer have an issue or needs to relog or slight mods, I review them free of charge. If a customer wants to reload the stock rom, there are welcome too and I do help them.

Now on the matter of maps and what their look like, I have learn many years ago when I entered in to tuning street race cars and professional race cars like WRC ones (because in Barbados we have many International race Cars including some WRC ones,) one talk about map smoothness and curves. Over a period of time reviewing tunes from professional tuners and cars that continue to work, place top in classes and reliable, what one believe goes out the window a bit. One has the option to smooth or tune based on the engine response.

My tuning is based on engine response. If a customers states that a curve feels not smooth, that I will smooth. XRT was born out of many of my customers who street race, professionally race or just want a good working car, needed a responsive reliable car. Before I tune a customer, I explain to him how I tune or how I drive. I can even tell a customer that there need to come of the throttle first before shifting to prevent over revs. Even heel-n-toe.

I have also learnt over time ways to maximise log reviews when data is limited. Examples Feedback Knock and Fine learning correction. Even when there is no Knock correction.

I will always state tuners are like politicians

Each tuner have their own methods of tuning. Thats all I will say. What is wrong and right is a fine line. In essence its the feedback, customer response and reliability.

Thank you.

West_Minist

[coyote]

Fuck you talk a lot of jibberish mate.

If your customers are happy, that's the main thing.

[04GTLIB]

Fuck you talk a lot of jibberish mate.

If your customers are happy, that's the main thing.

[zorro]

Funny thing is the tunes that I have looked at in my time that are locked usually aren't worth locking in the first place.

West_minist is the same as all tuners response the thing is though not all tunes are the same AND dils who copy paste tunes generally have nfi on what they are doing. My tunes have more than fuel & timing changes, cold start, lean cruise etc and unless you understand it then it's not much use to you.

[Tanetoa]

I've just brought a 2007 liberty GT that the previous owner had HPF perform a Type 1 package.

Does this mean in order to get any sort of tune, I would first, need HPF to unlock it? If that's the case does anyone know the approx cost?

Their type 2 package is way out of my price range which, is why I would like to try some of the suggested tunes on this forum.

Cheers

[Sgottlieb]

AutoRacingTechnik (ART)

Locked: No
Advised: No need

Just saw this and had to post.

Does this mean you you advise people to get a tune from Ray or not?
If yes then I advise against any dealings with ART in any way shape or form.

[Manaz]

AutoRacingTechnik (ART)

Locked: No
Advised: No need

Just saw this and had to post.

Does this mean you you advise people to get a tune from Ray or not?
If yes then I advise against any dealings with ART in any way shape or form.

He isn't recommending ART. What he means is that ART don't lock the ECU when they do tunes, and thus there's no need for them to inform the customer of anything.

If you read further up in the thread, you'll find that there are number of tuners who lock the ECU (there are a variety of ways, some are more effective than others) so that the tune can either not be read at all, or cannot be modified. From a moral/ethical standpoint, many (myself included) consider that if a tuner does this, he/she *must* inform the customer of this, explain to them the process (and any costs) for removing the lock or reverting the tune back to stock, and any potential outcomes (you'll see comments made about bricked ECUs after some tunes have been removed), so that the customer can make an educated decision as to whether they proceed with a tune or not. Unfortunately, it appears that some tuners are not making these things clear, and that is disappointing.