New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby coyote » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:09 pm

PHAT GT wrote:
jacks-GTB wrote:I have been doing lots of research on dumps...i sent him heaps of pics on dump pipes...and i'm not gonna mention which dump pipes, but he said they were crap...he said stick to xforce...the best and really cheap as well..

i rang xforce & they have made them for lib now...its not on there website yet

:D




Please do tell !!!


can you even use Xforce and the word BEST in the same sentence ??? ... maybe Xforce and realy cheap you can do


"Best" is something that can only be claimed if you've tested every other option. That's rarely the case, hence when someone says "best", they generally mean it "works" but feel that is not enough and so make exaggerated claims. The XForce might "work", so unless you've got data to suggest it doesn't, think you should stick to calling it "cheap".

Cheap is a good thing if you are talking about price, but not if you are talking about quality.

I remember when split dump pipes were first developed in this country by Trevor Campbell as my MY94 WRX was one of the first. People tried to copy the original and got certain details wrong. There was a LOT of R&D went into those things that the copiers didn't know about. They then claimed the design principal was crap, despite it simply being a case that their own implementation was deficient.

Of course we've got lots of data to show the PhatGT dump pipes work very well. Doesn't mean they are the "best", just that they "work".
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby jacks-GTB » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:52 pm

PHAT GT wrote:
jacks-GTB wrote:I have been doing lots of research on dumps...i sent him heaps of pics on dump pipes...and i'm not gonna mention which dump pipes, but he said they were crap...he said stick to xforce...the best and really cheap as well..

i rang xforce & they have made them for lib now...its not on there website yet

:D




Please do tell !!!


can you even use Xforce and the word BEST in the same sentence ??? ... maybe Xforce and really cheap you can do



Ay Michael, just to clarify... It wasn't your dump... I meant value for money the xforce dumps are the best for the money you pay...
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New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby Gambit » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:04 am

Any scientists here amongst the group, only way to validate would be to get all the dump pipes in question install and run them up on a dyno back to back and take their RRP and cross compare on certain key variables as well.
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby cpitts » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:51 am

Gambit wrote:Any scientists here amongst the group, only way to validate would be to get all the dump pipes in question install and run them up on a dyno back to back and take their RRP and cross compare on certain key variables as well.

At the risk of offending many people (this topic has some good history), I think a good way of 'testing' is not even on a car if you're looking at a true scientific approach.

Turbulence generator or even turbo bolted to the dump (ideally an OEM unit) and simply measure the flow through the units. This would instantly tell you how efficient each of the dump pipes are. It's all about airflow (fluid dynamics). Push hot air into a turbo (from a bench air generator) to emulate an engine and then measure how much pressure/resistance you get on the hot intake side of the turbo and the various temps along the dump pipe and the speed the air exits the dump pipe (at the bottom joint).

You'll have some absolute results and could quantify which dump pipe is BEST for A SPECIFIC FUNCTION. After-all, not everyone wants the OEM turbo and what's good for it won't be ideal for bigger turbo's or ext wastegate, etc.

It's always a case of 'best for my setup' rathe than the over-arching statement of 'best'.

Btw, g'day Phat! How ya been? ;)
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby micko-t » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:46 pm

Hi all,

New member/first post and enjoying stock Subie ownership, but not for long!

Jacks I've found your threads really useful so cheers. Been speaking with MSR and looking at booking the wagon in. Quick question if you don't mind - I noticed you went for an Invidia cat-back exhaust. Any reason for not going with XFORCE for the full system including the cat-back they do have advertised? (http://www.xforce.com.au/products.php?m ... u&model=59). Invidia don't advertise their cat-back but I like the idea of Quads, so am I right to assume it's worth calling around rather than relying on websites?

Cheers

Micko
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby jacks-GTB » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:50 am

micko-t wrote:Hi all,

New member/first post and enjoying stock Subie ownership, but not for long!

Jacks I've found your threads really useful so cheers. Been speaking with MSR and looking at booking the wagon in. Quick question if you don't mind - I noticed you went for an Invidia cat-back exhaust. Any reason for not going with XFORCE for the full system including the cat-back they do have advertised? (http://www.xforce.com.au/products.php?m ... u&model=59). Invidia don't advertise their cat-back but I like the idea of Quads, so am I right to assume it's worth calling around rather than relying on websites?

Cheers

Micko



Hey Micko,

Nice wagon..Yeah Mick is a nice dude... he has done everything of mine... doing a build soon with soon..should see 300awkw. Mick will also explain everything to you as well..top bloke...

Yeah I didn't go the full x-force because i love quad tips...But I also MSR loves x force dump pipes...
(by the way get him to install your dump so he can put his splitter in the dump)
I know a where you can get cat back invidia if you wanted quads - http://www.fullexhaustshop.com.au/Invid ... --310.html

give them a call

or troy from Pro speed racing - 0418436861

or ebay america

can't wait to see more pics from ya :)

cheers jack
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby Gambit » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:18 pm

jacks-GTB wrote:
micko-t wrote:Hi all,

New member/first post and enjoying stock Subie ownership, but not for long!

Jacks I've found your threads really useful so cheers. Been speaking with MSR and looking at booking the wagon in. Quick question if you don't mind - I noticed you went for an Invidia cat-back exhaust. Any reason for not going with XFORCE for the full system including the cat-back they do have advertised? (http://www.xforce.com.au/products.php?m ... u&model=59). Invidia don't advertise their cat-back but I like the idea of Quads, so am I right to assume it's worth calling around rather than relying on websites?

Cheers

Micko



Hey Micko,

Nice wagon..Yeah Mick is a nice dude... he has done everything of mine... doing a build soon with soon..should see 300awkw. Mick will also explain everything to you as well..top bloke...

Yeah I didn't go the full x-force because i love quad tips...But I also MSR loves x force dump pipes...
(by the way get him to install your dump so he can put his splitter in the dump)
I know a where you can get cat back invidia if you wanted quads - http://www.fullexhaustshop.com.au/Invid ... --310.html

give them a call

or troy from Pro speed racing - 0418436861

or ebay america

can't wait to see more pics from ya :)

cheers jack


Nice one Jacks! looking forward to this one ! :)
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby jacks-GTB » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:42 pm

Nice one Jacks! looking forward to this one ! :)


Thanks gambit...hopefully by march...just got my blouch 2.5 dominator(polka pickle) built..so looking forward to it come...
:D
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby dr20t » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Sounds good jack. What supporting mods are you planning with the dominator to hit 300awkw?

Mick
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My FrankenStien build thread here: viewtopic.php?t=14137
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby jeffas4966 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:00 am

Hi Jacks,
I am thinking of a td05 18G as part of my upgrade. Could I have your thoughts on them ie quality, performance. Will you be selling this turbo when you go LARGE :D (I would be interested). I have tried to PM you, but I have had problems recently trying to send PMs

Cheers

Jeff
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby jacks-GTB » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:23 pm

jeffas4966 wrote:Hi Jacks,
I am thinking of a td05 18G as part of my upgrade. Could I have your thoughts on them ie quality, performance. Will you be selling this turbo when you go LARGE :D (I would be interested). I have tried to PM you, but I have had problems recently trying to send PMs

Cheers

Jeff


PM'd jeff
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby T-REXX » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:52 pm

jeffas4966 wrote:Hi Jacks,
I am thinking of a td05 18G as part of my upgrade. Could I have your thoughts on them ie quality, performance. Will you be selling this turbo when you go LARGE :D (I would be interested). I have tried to PM you, but I have had problems recently trying to send PMs

Cheers

Jeff


with the 2.5s on a stock engine there are a few options u can do..

20G non billet turbo but will be a little lagier then an 18g.. might get 220kw@wheels
18G with custom billet wheel and full boost by 3100-3200.... insane responce, good for street and pulls well.. can prob get around the 230kw@wheels.. and that is where u cant go any further unless u have a new engine ready to go:)
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Re: New turbo, equal length headers & MSR tune

Postby jeffas4966 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:33 pm

Hey T-Rexx,
Will the 20G not be too laggy with an Auto, I only plan on running 16-17psi.

Cheers

Jeff
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