local tuner or remote tuner

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local tuner or remote tuner

Postby Doyab » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:28 pm

so, i was originally planning to get my tuning for my 3RB done by extreme racing tuning(west minst) on forums. he charges $450+, he has experience in these 3l now and everyone seems to be happy with his work. next thing. can he really tune to the cars potential without really being in person?
he also locks his tune to my understanding.
then... i went with tangcla last night to pick up his evo at auto racing technik(ART) and i asked him(ray) about it he said he has also tuned these before(not in australia) he said he usually gets between 14-18kw gain. and he charges about 100bucks short of a grand. but the advantage to this would be that its one day service. in then out.
and i get to see before and after figures on a real dyno. not a software dyno
so idk.
keep in mind i already have the tactrix cable.

what do you guys think would be the best option?
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby XT_for_me » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:04 am

I can't speak specifically about either of the tuners you mention but I have had a dyno tune on the Foz and later when I installed the VF52 turbo I bought a tune from Willall Racing via email. I thought about the options and discussed the potential outcome with Martin Donnon at Willall before hand. The one very significant comment he made was that for a road car, operating across a wide range of temperatures, with variable fuel (even when you stick to the one brand and type) and other factors, you would be very silly to tune it to the ultimate with no room for variations in conditions. Therefore the dyno tune (done properly) should not be peaked anymore than a generic tune done on the same model on a dyno. The other thing which convinced me to go with the $330 dollar cheaper email tune was the promise to review my logs and adjust anything required in the weeks following the tune.

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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby SegR » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:09 am

I think it's a matter of personal preference. I'm tossing up the same myself at the moment.

Things which will factor in to my decision on whether to go with XRT or a local tuner:

* What will it cost if another visit is required to resolve issues or refine the tune?
* How much is it going to cost me to buy a notebook if I go the MRT route? (or can I borrow one)
* What do I really need to do for the XRT tune to happen? Do I need to exceed the speed limit? How many times? Can I reasonably do this in my area?
* Does the concept of a locked tune cause any problems for you? (I assume this means nobody can change the tune - you're not locked out from restoring the stock tune or having someone creating another tune from scratch)
* Is there a tuner nearby whom you trust?
* What warranty does the tuner of choice offer?
* What do you do if something goes really wrong and your engine goes bang? (not just the crack crack crackle jed is looking for)

I'd suggest some of these questions are probably better not answered on a public forum (but PM me with the answers if you know them!)
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby Doyab » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:23 pm

SegR wrote:I think it's a matter of personal preference. I'm tossing up the same myself at the moment.

Things which will factor in to my decision on whether to go with XRT or a local tuner:

* What will it cost if another visit is required to resolve issues or refine the tune?
* How much is it going to cost me to buy a notebook if I go the MRT route? (or can I borrow one)
* What do I really need to do for the XRT tune to happen? Do I need to exceed the speed limit? How many times? Can I reasonably do this in my area?
* Does the concept of a locked tune cause any problems for you? (I assume this means nobody can change the tune - you're not locked out from restoring the stock tune or having someone creating another tune from scratch)
* Is there a tuner nearby whom you trust?
* What warranty does the tuner of choice offer?
* What do you do if something goes really wrong and your engine goes bang? (not just the crack crack crackle jed is looking for)

I'd suggest some of these questions are probably better not answered on a public forum (but PM me with the answers if you know them!)


well from my understanding he will retune for free with minor mods. ive already got a tactrix cable and laptop. with his tuning process you do need to break speed limits. with 3rd and 4th gear pulls to redline. so yeah. but i am leaning towards XRT based on two facts. A his a nice price. and B no one has had any complaints about him that has had work done.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby Stu » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:36 pm

I've also been considering XRT for my tune once all my mods are completed, since there's no one I know in Canberra who won't lock you in. However with XRT using the Tactrix cable can you put it back to the factory maps/tune if things aren't good? or is it locked as well once loaded? Would even consider DIY if I had a clue about open source tuning..... :?
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby Doyab » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:41 pm

Yes I know you can revert back to standard map
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby XT_for_me » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:57 pm

The open source tools are good. Partictularly RomRaider. I use OpenECU to read and write code to the ECU and RomRaider to edit the Hex file. You need a Tactrix cable (as you have) and a laptop (unless you want to drive your car into the lounge where the desktop is?). The tuning skill is in knowing what to change in the tables RomRaider presents to you. If you save the standard Rom as a Hex file before any tuning is done it is a trivial exercise to put that back into the ECU sometime later.

You can also use the Tactrix cable to log the performance of the car. Not just it's 0-100 time but a whole range of engine performance parameters. Tools like Virtual Dyno are almost as useful as a real dyno from my perspective. I have never come across 2 dyno's that will read the same power figures from a car and I believe that many tuners tweak the dyno to produce higher readings than it should because it makes them look good to the un-educated customer. Do not base your choice of tuner on the figures they get from a dyno. Dyno figures are useful as a back to back comparison on the one car, on the one day etc just as Virtual Dyno is. Far more important than absolute power figures is the way the car drives, the change in the power curve before and after tuning and of course the cost.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby senator » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:24 pm

IF you have the ability to log your car from time to time and more importantly have the knowledge to understand what your logging, then remote tune.

As said previously a dyno tune by a good tuner is simply a drive in and drive out affair, any good tuner will also gladly retune or even check your tune from time to time for next to nothing.
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Xtreme Racing Tuning

Postby west_minist » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:59 pm

Its almost 2am here in Barbados.

Let me say that customers do no need to exceed the speed limit. But the tune is as good as how the car is driven. If you granny drive, the tune will be granny.

Some customers always need a before and after tune dyno. But it is up to you if you can perform 3rd or 4th gear runs.

Any car I tune, you can flash back in the stock rom. I do not lock the ECU.

When I tune you and you are within your mods or nothing extravagant, I retune for free. Take for example....if your car is stock and you had a nice exhaust system upgrade and I can see you can make more power, I will turn the knobs up and if retuning is really needed at an effort level, I will notify you and we will take it from there.

Although remotely, I think some customers enjoy the experience. I use msn, yahoo, Whatsapp, skype, teamviewer, etc.

I think this customer sums it all up :) - viewtopic.php?f=53&t=7684#p170671

Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/user/westminist#p/u
Last edited by west_minist on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby west_minist » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:05 pm

Let me add this piece. You would be amaze how poorly the 3R works on gas. Everyone should claim warranty from the dealers.

In tuning the 3R, its more ign reduction than anything else. The car runs too much timing for the gas used. I also find that every one runs spark plugs for more than 10,000km or more than 6months. This is a no no. That's too long for the plugs and you have hesitations, poor fuel economy and reduce performance.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby coyote » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:37 pm

My opinion is that if you are willing to put in the time, your best tune will be the one you do yourself.

You can see it, you can change it and you don't have to ask someone's permission to do something on your own car.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby Doyab » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:49 pm

well ive done some weighing up some pros and cons and i think im gonna get west minst to tune my car. ill be sending him an email tonight.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby west_minist » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:24 pm

Well if all goes well, you will be another customer who can relate their experience, but the next possible customer again will be like you. Its always a convincing game :)

On another note, I am happy when their are happy.

All I ask is if you are coming tune, please get a full service, especially with spark plug and oil changes.
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Re: local tuner or remote tuner

Postby tangcla » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:38 am

coyote wrote:My opinion is that if you are willing to put in the time, your best tune will be the one you do yourself.

You can see it, you can change it and you don't have to ask someone's permission to do something on your own car.

However that requires understanding and knowledge of whwat you're doing, and more importantly, understanding the consequences if you do push it too far.
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