Muffler Requirements (ATTN: TCP and ULTREX)

by **Robbks** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:30 pm

Just throwing this out there for a show of support from others in the same boat as myself
Particularly those of us with the H6 or other NA varieties sporting dual mufflers or those who are after a more subtle and family friendly note to their exhaust

I currently have 2.5" Redbacks and they are pretty good for the NA Wagon but are still a little droney at low RPM (2K) with lots of load.
These are only single inlet single outlet design, but ideally I want to get some Quad-tips on there as do most of us.

The issue is with the current mufflers available
TCP, ULTREX and PHAT's is that there is a huge step up in piping diameter (from <2" to 3")
and there is no way in hell we need to have an effective 6" of exhaust piping for the power levels we're looking at (in the context of this thread)
And Tuned By STi Cans provide no discernable difference in note/ volume to my ears

My proposal to those who build stuff for us is this..

Match the factory piping size or just go 2" inlets because it's easier. This is still far more than adequate to support the exhuast flows from these cars
But using a straight-through design will open it up to give a nice subtle note.
For ease of manufacture (I would think) a modified universal muffler with 2" inlet and outlet, and adding the appropriate inlet and hangers would help in keeping costs down as the muffler body could be used and modified for a number of different vehicles
For us specifically the exhaust tips/ outlet would incorporate the 1>2 split to give the quad tips we desire (like the VE commodore)

the turbo guys have the luxury of the up-pipe and turbo taking care of a lot of the noise supression duties, but there's still a few owners who think the current products are still too loud for them, especially when you open up the dump, cats and centre pipes (because THAT is where the power gains are)

A show of hands from parties interested in such a set would also help show support to the guys building stuff for us.
I'd be more than happy to fork out the $650 a set for brand new S/S mufflers from either/ any company if it fulfills these requirements
(as opposed to being ripped-off for a set of 6 year old TB STi Quads that provide nothing but looks)

by **matt_3.0rb** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:10 pm

Im with you Rob.

Id be happy to grab a set of mufflers providing the sound etc was as you described above, ive been looking but cant find anything yet, without having something made specifically for me. Maybe a group buy of something custom made might be the way to go.

by **Robbks** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:25 pm

come take a ride in mine too.
that way you can see where 2.5" straight through is in the equation and the issues I have.

the thing is when you don't have enough flow through them, they do make more noise.
And for some reason the exhaust makers think we need to have 3" pipes so the cool kids will like them, then you find a bunch of threads about "My TCP, Ultrex, Xforce, etc mufflers are too loud"

by **matt_3.0rb** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:02 pm

yeah i heard the guy with the Blitzen sedan is Hobart, (forgotten his name :s) but he has z force rear mufflers on his 3.0 and it is quite loud from outside the car. Can only imagine what it would be like inside a wagon.

Next time i'm in Hobart ill have to check yours out. But from what i have seen there are a few 3.0 owners looking for suitable exhausts so would imagine there would be a few takers.

by **Robbks** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:54 pm

yeah exactly.

My other issue with my current setup is the tips are for a sedan and need extending.

Another advantage of my proposal is that the manufacturers can use the exact same muffler, and offer two different bolt-on tips., using a grub-screw arrangement as per the factory setup.
And IF they're smart, they can tack on two different captive nuts and sell the same tip that just screws into the different nut location.
and then they can offer single or twin tips.

so as opposed to the current situation where they have 4 different full mufflers to suit Sedan/ Wagon with single or twin tips, the ONE muffler will do it all with two tip options?
Does this make ecenomic sense to anyone else?

by **SegR** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:12 pm

Good thread. Will probably stick to my STi mufflers but keen to see some new development for 3.0 NA folk.

by **Robbks** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:16 am

Could be an opportunity to see some Raptor Mufflers on the market, Tim.?

Also applicable to the newer Foresters and Impreza's too (with the correct mounts)

by **tbear** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:35 am

hi robbks

it all comes down to have many people out there want to purchase mufflers for the N/A's

I can manufacture any size diameter piping but I need to do qty to get the right price etc.

if you can get 10 + people for a single type of muffler i.e. 10 people who want sedans and 10 people who want wagon mufflers, I can put a production run in place

but if it is only for 1-3 people its not worth the time ..

Cheers
Tony
TCP

by **SH30RB** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:39 am

Robbks wrote:My other issue with my current setup is the tips are for a sedan and need extending.

i have this problem with my current xforce setup

Robbks wrote:Another advantage of my proposal is that the manufacturers can use the exact same muffler, and offer two different bolt-on tips., using a grub-screw arrangement as per the factory setup.
And IF they're smart, they can tack on two different captive nuts and sell the same tip that just screws into the different nut location.
and then they can offer single or twin tips.

so as opposed to the current situation where they have 4 different full mufflers to suit Sedan/ Wagon with single or twin tips, the ONE muffler will do it all with two tip options?
Does this make ecenomic sense to anyone else?

now this is just smart and rational thinking...
and this would be some what more economical than producing 4 different mufflers

by **Robbks** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:00 am

Thanks Tony,

Would that also include a reduction in the diameter of the internal perforated pipes accordingly?

by **ULTREX** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:22 am

Hi Rob - for it to be viable to do there needs to be demand for it.

It certainly can be done - nothing tricky to it and can be shipped in our existing containers of exhausts to us which keeps the pricing competitive.

But we need 7+ people for the same system to work

cheers
Rob

by **tbear** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:27 am

Robbks wrote:Thanks Tony,

Would that also include a reduction in the diameter of the internal perforated pipes accordingly?

sure.. just let me know what you need and I can manufacture it, Only need the qty to make it vaiable

Thanks
Tony

by **Robbks** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:56 am

Great work guys.

I guess it's just up to us now to decide on what we want produced and get the numbers for it to happen.

another technical question for both of you
what design would provide a lower volume in a straight-through design (glass packed with perf tube)
-Single 2" inlet, dual 2" outlet as your current designs are,
or
-Single 2" inlet and single 2" outlet?

My personal preference/ suggestion for the design would be
-Big Oval Body (as is currently on offer)
-Straight through design (glass/ wool packed with perforated tube)
-Single inlet matching the factory piping diameter
-Outlet design which achieves lower volumes into quad tips

by **HoFF** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 pm

Im sort of in the same boat Rob. Come tax time I think I might give the X force centre and y pipe a go with my sti quads and see what that achieves.

I'm traveling 1000klms a week going to work so my main concern is drone at freeway speeds.

The only drone I get with my quads now is full throttle at about 1200rpm crawling up my steep driveway

by **Robbks** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:31 pm

HoFF wrote:The only drone I get with my quads now is full throttle at about 1200rpm crawling up my steep driveway

yeah mine is only down low (<2000rpm)
but these cars will happily drive around doing those revs so it seems a waste to need to be back a gear because it's too noisy to do so