Sound Deadening workshop - Oct 18 Glen Waverley

[cpitts]

Date: 18th Oct, 2009
Time: 8am to late
Location: 264 Springvale Road, Glen Waverley. Corner of Glen road. Entry just off Springvale Road.

Who's IN:
Craig Pitts (Run the day! no car)
BennyGSR (MY08 3RB Wag)
Tangcla (MY04 Lib GT Sed)
Ric (spectate/assist, no car at this stage)
teK-- (spectate/assist, no car at this stage)
LibJam - (MY06 Lib Sedan)
AWDDave - (spectate/assist)
kaycy - (Attend MY??)

What you need to bring:
- A bucket (for water while you're degreasing)
- Some grease remover (detergent, maybe something a bit stronger. At least detergent won't eat out your duco tho)
- 3 terry towelling rags/towells that you don't really care if they get destroyed (BigW sells 10 packs of cloth nappies for ~$15!! Perfect)
- Blanket to lay interior parts on (or in your boot/back seat, etc)
- A small wooden roller ~5cm wide +/- 2cm (Bunnings/Art store - I'll get a pic)
- Something to neel on. You're knees will thank you after 4 hrs on concrete
- 3 bottles of water (you'll be amazed at how much you sweat)
- The worst set of yard clothes you own. You will get them covered in grease, dirt, mud and oily substances. They'll be stuffed afterwards.
- 1 roll Gaffa tape (again, Bunnings)
- #2 Phillips head screw driver
- Scintillating conversation for everyone involved.

--------------------------------------------
Hey guys,

With a bit more interest starting to bubble up from the sound deadening work I've done on my car, I thought it may be time to put together a couple of things:

- Group buy on Dynamat Extreme Sound deadener (bulk packs)
- Group buy on Dynamat Dynaxorb (for more mid/bass)
- A fitting workshop and demo day

What's the idea on these things?

Clearly I'm talking VIC based.
Venue is unknown, we really need a massive shed or a warehouse/car park type thing with power and good light.

Tools are pretty simple (as we all are) and I'll outline that once we determine what's required.

Typical pricing of deadener bulk pack is ~$230 which will do all 4 doors (double layer on the front, single layer (and a bit) on the rear) and your pacel shelf giving you a little left over to do maybe part of the boot lid or even doubling up on the back doors for extra driving silence.

Deflex pads (dynaxorb) is about $40 and WELL worth it for the tiny thing it is. But you need to buy a tube of superglue to fit them, so factor in that extra $5.

As an expectation setter, this is what we're looking to achieve is taking front and rear doors from this factory state:
Front door:


Back door:
(sorry, no pic before)

to this deadened state:
Front:


Rear:



NOW, the reason I've stopped at this point is TIME and facilities.

If you'd like to get your front doors to look like this:


Then that requires a LOT more fine work with 3mm MDF cutouts, gaffa tape and all sorts of knifework. Oh, and a decent set of 3 ways.

[tangcla]

You know I'm interested since I was discussing this with you via PM for the last half hour and yesterday!

I'll see what I can do about venue. Car park can do, but osmewhere undercover like an unused warehouse would be ideal.

[cpitts]

aaawwww, what really sux is that the last question option has been dropped. And I can't edit it either.

Edit, yeah, I know Cla, I was going to PM you but you got on here first!

[gtspec]

is sydney on your way

[Ric]

aaawwww, what really sux is that the last question option has been dropped. And I can't edit it either.
...

I can. What do you want to add?
( I just added what was an obvious extra choice )
Edit #2, just added your option, with some slight re-wording

[cpitts]

Thanks Ric.

The 'would just like to come' was sort of there in one of the options that had:

Come to workshop (already have deadener).

Mind you that still assumes that you'll be doing some fit-up. But also not. Either way, it's better for the update now.

[kaycy]

Since you already mentioned weight, how much does the sound deadener weigh (for all doors and parcel counter)?

What brand of speakers do you recommend if I wanted to change all of them? The mac speakers' paper cones are tearing up almost every month.

[smythie]

From memory he mentioned something like 10kg in one of his posts in the audio section

[kaycy]

From memory he mentioned something like 10kg in one of his posts in the audio section

Thanks Smythie, I'll have to work out at the gym a little bit more to counter my car's weight gain then.

[cpitts]

Yeah, you're looking at approx 10kg.

Think of it as 10l of petrol. So if you've knocked the top off your tank around town, then you're back to where you already are.

As for speakers, the only factory speaker (in the 14 spk MY07+ setup) that seems to really take a hammering is the sub. If you're splitting them, I'm not sure what you're doing!

BUT, for upgrades, it depends how deep your pockets are. But anything that's a poly coated cone or even kevlar would provide you with a much more rigid solution, most likely slightly better bottom end and better midrange.

Unless you really step up with some good money, you're going to be hard pressed to beat the 4 way + centre setup once you've properly deadened the doors.

As an indication:
The factory McIntosh 4 ways in the front + full deadening with stock HU and amp provides very flat, even frequencies from low to high.

I now have $1700 DynAudio 3-way speakers in the front doors with significant install time, again with the factory amp and HU and the sound is again, very flat/even frequencies but with the addition of MORE bass and additional depth and clarity and even more mid-bass. While this sounds a lot better than the McIntosh speakers, I'd say that it's not $1700 better!

My point is that, you'll have to spend a LOT to get better sound from JUST the speakers when the doors are properly deadened. You may get a minor improvement in certain areas, but the flatness of frequency delivery will ultimately be compromised.

Chances are, the rattles and noises you get when you crank up the speakers now aren't the speakers dying, moreso all the crap and cables in the factory doors rattling like there's no tomorrow. The only possible failing speaker would be the sub, seems it dies if you have it set to +6 and crank the stereo over 25.

[kaycy]

@Cpitts: The sub has been replaced already and I truly think one of the front left side door speakers is broken. I listen to my ipod a lot via the Mac so I think poor equalizer set-up might be to blame.

[cpitts]

I think it's likely the attrocious signal coming in from the ipod that's clipping when the McAmp makes it louder. The nett result is the speakers not travelling cleanly which results in damage. Also the fact that the iPod most likely has all sorts of bass boost turned on already and then you've also got the McIntosh turned up to +6 Bass as well, resulting in massive overbassing.

Deadening the shelf and car will certainly sort that out for ya. Turn those bass levels down and blow a few less speakers.

[bennygsr]

I guess I'm not overly concerned about increasing sound performance in my wagon, however I like the idea of a quieter car on the highway.

Does the sound deading help reduce road noise by much?

[cpitts]

In short, yes. Road noise will be significantly reduced. But you're not going to get rid of it all together. Coarse chipped country highways are STILL noisey, but you can at least conduct a discussion at moderate volumes at 110kph after the car is deadened.

The idea of the session would be to give you the skills to understand WHERE the noise comes from and how to apply deadener with a goal to making the car quieter in the cabin. How much you ultimately deaden is your choice.

[Mr White]

Nice work Craig, I'm very interested!

Is it the type of workshop where each of us could deaden our cars
progressively throughout the day through to completion?

Or, does it take longer than a day?

Put me on the list.
Good work mate.