club.liberty.asn.au

Hello All,

I have not long had my 06 TBSTI Manual and am already wanting to do some work to her. I am wanting to do the following mods and would like some input from you peeps as to where I should be heading.... I am looking for power of around 220-240awkw.

Turbo - What should I be looking for here, brand, size etc ? Am wanting something which will pull through to redline (not that I will probably ever get there) and good mid range as well....

Intercooler - It's the old story, TMIC vs FMIC, but what's best for the power I am chasing ? I would prefer a good TMIC to keep the stock look but will entertain the notion of the FMIC if the power gains over a TMIC are there.

CAI - Do I really need one of these, and if so what type and brand should I be looking at ?

Exhaust - Will be getting a 3" TBE but how the dump pipe will connect to the turbo will be the question depending on the turbo that I get.

Uppipe - Do I need a better one ? was gonna grab a MINES one from dr20t but that sold so am back to square one.

Injectors - Was looking at some ID1000's which I think will be more than enough, is this a good option ?

Tune - As I am in QLD I have no idea of who would be best to do this. I have heard good things about Godzilla Motorsport @ Wakerley and was gonna take my old Foz there but never got around to it. Don't really wanna take the car interstate either.

Will also be getting a Walbro pump in the near future.

After all of that, is there anything else I need ?

Am also wanting a different grille for the front as well, any recommendations here ?

Would appreciate any feedback you can offer, have read a few of the members rides and the mods there but some of them are very long and would prefer just to pick people's brains.

Thanks

Brett.

PSISUBI wrote:Hello All,

I have not long had my 06 TBSTI Manual and am already wanting to do some work to her. I am wanting to do the following mods and would like some input from you peeps as to where I should be heading.... I am looking for power of around 220-240awkw.

Turbo - What should I be looking for here, brand, size etc ? Am wanting something which will pull through to redline (not that I will probably ever get there) and good mid range as well....
Are you wanting to stay twin-scroll or convert to single-scroll? You will find a bigger range of turbos with single.

Intercooler - It's the old story, TMIC vs FMIC, but what's best for the power I am chasing ? I would prefer a good TMIC to keep the stock look but will entertain the notion of the FMIC if the power gains over a TMIC are there.
Pretty controversial argument there.. Purely up to you, unless you're pushing 250kw+, TMIC should be just fine.

CAI - Do I really need one of these, and if so what type and brand should I be looking at ?

Not required, a new panel filter should do the job just fine, until you start pushing 220-250+, in which case full intake would be the trick.

Exhaust - Will be getting a 3" TBE but how the dump pipe will connect to the turbo will be the question depending on the turbo that I get.

Is your car manual or auto, I know the manual DP won't fit Auto, due to the larger box, therefore I assume auto would fit manual.
You will have to decide on your turbo before you get a DP.

Uppipe - Do I need a better one ? was gonna grab a MINES one from dr20t but that sold so am back to square one.

Not really required unless pushing decent power, in saying that, this decision will be swayed by if you stay twinscroll or not.

Injectors - Was looking at some ID1000's which I think will be more than enough, is this a good option ?

For 220-250kw I would imagine yeah

Tune - As I am in QLD I have no idea of who would be best to do this. I have heard good things about Godzilla Motorsport @ Wakerley and was gonna take my old Foz there but never got around to it. Don't really wanna take the car interstate either.

I have heard good things about Northside 4x4, they have done a lot of Subaru tuning, otherwise Chiptorque get a good rep too from what I've seen.

Will also be getting a Walbro pump in the near future.

After all of that, is there anything else I need ?

Am also wanting a different grille for the front as well, any recommendations here ?

You can go aftermarket, Corazon, zero/sports etc or can do a DIY mesh grill which looks the part, if you've got time/patience.

Would appreciate any feedback you can offer, have read a few of the members rides and the mods there but some of them are very long and would prefer just to pick people's brains.

Thanks

Brett.

Purely my oppinion, I am not a mechanic nor a Subaru expert.

Good luck.

zch91 wrote:

PSISUBI wrote:Hello All,

I have not long had my 06 TBSTI Manual and am already wanting to do some work to her. I am wanting to do the following mods and would like some input from you peeps as to where I should be heading.... I am looking for power of around 220-240awkw.

Turbo - What should I be looking for here, brand, size etc ? Am wanting something which will pull through to redline (not that I will probably ever get there) and good mid range as well....
Are you wanting to stay twin-scroll or convert to single-scroll? You will find a bigger range of turbos with single.

Intercooler - It's the old story, TMIC vs FMIC, but what's best for the power I am chasing ? I would prefer a good TMIC to keep the stock look but will entertain the notion of the FMIC if the power gains over a TMIC are there.
Pretty controversial argument there.. Purely up to you, unless you're pushing 250kw+, TMIC should be just fine.

CAI - Do I really need one of these, and if so what type and brand should I be looking at ?

Not required, a new panel filter should do the job just fine, until you start pushing 220-250+, in which case full intake would be the trick.

Exhaust - Will be getting a 3" TBE but how the dump pipe will connect to the turbo will be the question depending on the turbo that I get.

Is your car manual or auto, I know the manual DP won't fit Auto, due to the larger box, therefore I assume auto would fit manual.
You will have to decide on your turbo before you get a DP.

Uppipe - Do I need a better one ? was gonna grab a MINES one from dr20t but that sold so am back to square one.

Not really required unless pushing decent power, in saying that, this decision will be swayed by if you stay twinscroll or not.

Injectors - Was looking at some ID1000's which I think will be more than enough, is this a good option ?

For 220-250kw I would imagine yeah

Tune - As I am in QLD I have no idea of who would be best to do this. I have heard good things about Godzilla Motorsport @ Wakerley and was gonna take my old Foz there but never got around to it. Don't really wanna take the car interstate either.

I have heard good things about Northside 4x4, they have done a lot of Subaru tuning, otherwise Chiptorque get a good rep too from what I've seen.

Will also be getting a Walbro pump in the near future.

After all of that, is there anything else I need ?

Am also wanting a different grille for the front as well, any recommendations here ?

You can go aftermarket, Corazon, zero/sports etc or can do a DIY mesh grill which looks the part, if you've got time/patience.

Would appreciate any feedback you can offer, have read a few of the members rides and the mods there but some of them are very long and would prefer just to pick people's brains.

Thanks

Brett.

Purely my oppinion, I am not a mechanic nor a Subaru expert.

Good luck.

Hi Zach,

Thanks for your input here, we will have to catch up sometime and compare notes In regards to the points you make above.....

1. I would most likely convert to single scroll as I agree there's bigger range of turbos, especially the Garrett ones (and one of those I just missed out on, a GT2871). But would there be a good twin scroll turbo that would get me to the power figure I am looking for ?
2. In that case I would stick to the TMIC, what sizes or brands should I be looking for ? I noted there's an AVO one in the FS section, would this be a god option ?
3. Considering that I am looking for 220-240awkw, the full intake would be the go. What brands or designs should I be looking for here ? I had a 3" CAI from the inner guard on the old Foz, would this be a good starting point ?
4. The car's manual so wouldnt be an issue, but do agree that I should probably do the dump pipe when I decide on what turbo I go for. Will most likely do a 3" CBE to start.
5. Being that I will most likely go single scroll, should I invest in the uppipe ?
6. Will look for those injectors then for sure.
7. I will investigate Northside 4x4, have also heard some god stuff about them and are localish to me as well.
8. Where would I find a Corazon or Zero/Sports grille ?

Look forward to your responses.

Brett.

Unfortunately there is not a single direct bolt on upgrade turbo for the 2.0 litre - at all - and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise cos they are are full of it

The only replacement twin scroll turbos available are for the ej207 jdm spec c wrx twin scroll turbos which are vf36/37/43/56

The flange on those turbos are different to the vf38 and td04hla twin scroll turbo in our libs

Therefore there are no direct bolt on upgrades. A few options here:

1. Use the headers and uppipe from a facelift 2.5 gt liberty, and then get an aftermarket turbo to suit (or even another larger type vf series / kinugawa bolt on turbo). My pick would be a gtx2860 from street to track on here (a bolt in one from ATP USA). This is a perfect turbo for a 98 based 2.0 litre if you don't want lag. If you don't mind lag then a 2871, 2876 or even 3076 would work too - but the latter will be laggy so be careful.

2. Buy a set of aftermarket twin scroll headers (garage 88 and blacktop on here in the vendors section sell them). Tomei ones are about 900 and the cheaper kando style are about 650. With these headers you can then use a vf36/37/43/56 twin scroll turbo - contact kris from rising sun Subaru in QLD as he has a few twin scroll turbos lying around. They're not cheap at about 900 second hand I believe but best to check with him. If you're going down this path you may as well get a jdm ej207 twin scroll Sti TMIC from kris as well - you will need to modify mounting brackets and inlet pipe to suit the liberty plastic intake manifold but this is still cheaper than going front mount.

3. Try to locate a mines / tomei / aftermarket legacy twin scroll up-pipe (Michael from garage 88 can help here) and have it fitted to your factory twin scroll headers, them modified to suit whatever turbo you need. You MUST get the legacy twin scroll up pipe here and not any other Subaru type - there is a reason for this which you will find out. Unless you change the entire headers, then the wrx / forrester / whatever uppipe will NOT work with your liberty twin scroll factory headers, even if the donor vehicle is twin scroll. Trust me on this - the liberty twin scroll headers are unique to our cars so any aftermarket uppipe will need to be for a legacy / liberty.

I think the rest has been answered for you by zach - unless upgrading turbo then don't get a cai its a waste of time and money and will only throw out your maf scaling for no benefit. ID1000 will be fine.
Good luck

Mick

dr20t wrote:Unfortunately there is not a single direct bolt on upgrade turbo for the 2.0 litre - at all - and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise cos they are are full of it

The only replacement twin scroll turbos available are for the ej207 jdm spec c wrx twin scroll turbos which are vf36/37/43/56

The flange on those turbos are different to the vf38 and td04hla twin scroll turbo in our libs

Therefore there are no direct bolt on upgrades. A few options here:

1. Use the headers and uppipe from a facelift 2.5 gt liberty, and then get an aftermarket turbo to suit (or even another larger type vf series / kinugawa bolt on turbo). My pick would be a gtx2860 from street to track on here (a bolt in one from ATP USA). This is a perfect turbo for a 98 based 2.0 litre if you don't want lag. If you don't mind lag then a 2871, 2876 or even 3076 would work too - but the latter will be laggy so be careful.

2. Buy a set of aftermarket twin scroll headers (garage 88 and blacktop on here in the vendors section sell them). Tomei ones are about 900 and the cheaper kando style are about 650. With these headers you can then use a vf36/37/43/56 twin scroll turbo - contact kris from rising sun Subaru in QLD as he has a few twin scroll turbos lying around. They're not cheap at about 900 second hand I believe but best to check with him. If you're going down this path you may as well get a jdm ej207 twin scroll Sti TMIC from kris as well - you will need to modify mounting brackets and inlet pipe to suit the liberty plastic intake manifold but this is still cheaper than going front mount.

3. Try to locate a mines / tomei / aftermarket legacy twin scroll up-pipe (Michael from garage 88 can help here) and have it fitted to your factory twin scroll headers, them modified to suit whatever turbo you need. You MUST get the legacy twin scroll up pipe here and not any other Subaru type - there is a reason for this which you will find out. Unless you change the entire headers, then the wrx / forrester / whatever uppipe will NOT work with your liberty twin scroll factory headers, even if the donor vehicle is twin scroll. Trust me on this - the liberty twin scroll headers are unique to our cars so any aftermarket uppipe will need to be for a legacy / liberty.

I think the rest has been answered for you by zach - unless upgrading turbo then don't get a cai its a waste of time and money and will only throw out your maf scaling for no benefit. ID1000 will be fine.
Good luck

Mick

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the response, but I feel as though I am getting very lost in all of this.... I do apologise for all of the questions, just need to get things right in my mind.

1. Would say a VF48 or 52 work well with the headers & uppipe from the 2.5L GT Liberty ?
2. How laggy is the 2871/2876/3071 over the VF48/52 ? Would the 2871/2876/3071 make more power than the VF48/52 ?
3. Out of the three options you have put above, which would be the best for the power figure that I am chasing ?
4. Owen has an AVO TMIC for sale, would this be a good upgrade or should I look for an STI TMIC ?

1. The vf48 and vf52 will fit straight onto the 2.5 GT headers and up pipe, as will any single scroll vf series turbo. Kinugawa also make a bolt on option for those cars (2.5 GT which you will be using the uppipe / headers from) in various sizes. As do many other manufacturers of better quality such as tomei or Garrett. An forced performance green would be good too many options here just depends what you're after. Once you change to single scroll it opens up alot of doors

2. The two smaller Garret's (2860 and 2871) will be comparable in spool to the vf52 I reckon, maybe slightly laggier. The 3071 will be pretty laggy on a 2.0 litre unless on eflex or e85 fuel. For sure the 3071 will make more power but narrows your power band. I also believe any of the Garrett turbos will make more power than the vf52 but others may disagree...

3. Hard to answer this one as it comes down to where and how you want your power to be made. I personally don't mind a bit of lag and thought the 2871 was perfect as it held pretty much to redline. But it's personal preference. I don't see the vf52 getting anywhere near 240kw atw.

4. Owens avo TMIC won't work unless you go to a vf46 turbo (stock 2.5 GT turbo).

There is a cat in brisbane claim he has 260+ kw at the wheels out of a vf52 on eflex. Don't get hung up on dyno numbers. Worry about MPH at the quater mile. That is the true indicator.

I agree with what Dr20t has said except, though I can offer an opinion on blouch turbos. I run a 20g-xt r, which is essentially x3071 wheels in a mitsubishi style housing, for the example, mine is an 8cm rear. It should, by rights be capable of making 260-270 kw at the wheels on 98. I ran it with kando equal length headers with a single scroll up pipe, it made 20psi by about 4500rpm, and was seeing positive boost by 3200-3500 rpm. Coyote wasn't too happy with the tune, but it moved along pretty well. Some would say it was a bit laggy, but it still gave a solid 3500 rpm power band, enough to run 106-108 mph at willowbank, which is pretty fast for a heavy 2.0.

Personally, I think you shouldn't get too excited on the power numbers. Go kando headers as described above, a vf52, silicon inlet to suit, big fuel pump, an avo intake with pod filter (one of which i have just sitting here doing nothing), a full TCP exhaust, and some bigger side feed injectors for 98. That should get you well over 200 kw at the wheels, and make for a rapid daily that would be very reliable and not attract the wrong kind of attention. Then spend spend spend on suspension. Brakes wise, stick with the sliding calipers and gift them some high quality pads, series 4000 rotors, good brake lines and good fluid. The brembos aren't that big a step up.

Tuners? Coyote is very good. He tunes with Matt Spry. Tony has a real job so it can be a bit hard to schedule tunes at times, but his work is great, he is willing to help you out when you need it, and won't let your car go with a tune he isn't happy with (Despite the contradictory statement two paragraphs above). His dyno is a bit of a heart breaker too, which is a good thing. Another good tuner is Lindsay at Northside 4x4. Lindsay tunes a lot of cars and gets good results (see 260-270kw vf52). He did my first tune, I had some problems, he asked no questions and fixed them straight away. Take your pick of those two and you won't go wrong. Please keep my advice in mind, and do your research on tuners on various Australian Suabru forums.

I'll come along on Sunday to this downshift shooting match and will talk to you about it there if you like.

kiahatsiu wrote:There is a cat in brisbane claim he has 260+ kw at the wheels out of a vf52 on eflex. Don't get hung up on dyno numbers. Worry about MPH at the quater mile. That is the true indicator.

I agree with what Dr20t has said except, though I can offer an opinion on blouch turbos. I run a 20g-xt r, which is essentially x3071 wheels in a mitsubishi style housing, for the example, mine is an 8cm rear. It should, by rights be capable of making 260-270 kw at the wheels on 98. I ran it with kando equal length headers with a single scroll up pipe, it made 20psi by about 4500rpm, and was seeing positive boost by 3200-3500 rpm. Coyote wasn't too happy with the tune, but it moved along pretty well. Some would say it was a bit laggy, but it still gave a solid 3500 rpm power band, enough to run 106-108 mph at willowbank, which is pretty fast for a heavy 2.0.

Personally, I think you shouldn't get too excited on the power numbers. Go kando headers as described above, a vf52, silicon inlet to suit, big fuel pump, an avo intake with pod filter (one of which i have just sitting here doing nothing), a full TCP exhaust, and some bigger side feed injectors for 98. That should get you well over 200 kw at the wheels, and make for a rapid daily that would be very reliable and not attract the wrong kind of attention. Then spend spend spend on suspension. Brakes wise, stick with the sliding calipers and gift them some high quality pads, series 4000 rotors, good brake lines and good fluid. The brembos aren't that big a step up.

Tuners? Coyote is very good. He tunes with Matt Spry. Tony has a real job so it can be a bit hard to schedule tunes at times, but his work is great, he is willing to help you out when you need it, and won't let your car go with a tune he isn't happy with (Despite the contradictory statement two paragraphs above). His dyno is a bit of a heart breaker too, which is a good thing. Another good tuner is Lindsay at Northside 4x4. Lindsay tunes a lot of cars and gets good results (see 260-270kw vf52). He did my first tune, I had some problems, he asked no questions and fixed them straight away. Take your pick of those two and you won't go wrong. Please keep my advice in mind, and do your research on tuners on various Australian Suabru forums.

I'll come along on Sunday to this downshift shooting match and will talk to you about it there if you like.

Hi Ian,

Thanks for that insight, and I should be able to make the downshift meet on Sunday so would love to pick your brain some more and get a roadmap of sorts in place. I think that after yours, Mick's and Zach's input that I am going to convert to single scroll which opens up alot more avenues in regards to the turbo. I will also look at the 07 on headers & uppipe. The kando headers also look a good option if I dont go the standard headers from the 07. The VF52 sounds like a good option, but I do like the sound of the Garretts as well so will have to make a decision on that one. I will also look at going with Northside 4x4 as I have also heard some good stories about them.

Cheers

Brett.

Outstanding replies, gents!

Would I also need a BOV and Grimmspeed 3 Port Boost Control Solenoid when it comes to tuning time ?

Yeah, the type BOV depends on if you go FMIC or TMIC due to the piping so don't rush out and buy one until you know what the plan is.
This talk of airboxes with panel filters being good for 250 kw at the wheels is fairly unlikely. It doesn't take a rocket scientologist to realise more airflow = more power. So while you may be able to make 250kw with a stock airbox and panel filter you would make it a whole lot easier with less restriction in the inlet.
Top mounts being good for 250 odd at the wheels? Maybe so. But if you lived in some sort of dynamic environment with varying seasons in some sort of sub tropic climate where the laws of thermodynamics are followed you would do much better with a front mount. This environment model is just hypothetical of course. People will also tell you that FMIC's add lag. It is hardly noticeable, and if you are going down the road of a turbo to suit 200-220-250+ kw at the wheels, I think the source of the lag may lie elsewhere.
Don't forget this is going to fark your insurance too. So make sure you ring around and sus that out before you start making your sedan a hot rod.

Oh, and I have no sarcastic negative tirade about grimspeed 3 port boost controllers. I think they are good. Pierberg one's are good too I am told. The only pro tip I can give you there is to fit it in the car park of your dyno tuner, as they control boost in a vastly different fashion to the stock 2 port.

^^^^^ what he said

dr20t wrote:^^^^^ what he said

Hi Mick,

Could you advise if this would suit my car ? It says it's for an SR20 but has the 2871r and the tial external wastegate.

http://www.boostclassifieds.com.au/adve ... -Sale.html

Thanks

Brett.

Mate honestly it would be too much hassle to try fit that

My setup was the only one I know of that was modified properly to suit a t28 flanged turbo

Twin scroll is great but you will be limited

Something else you can try actually which I didn't think of earlier - contact kris from rising sun Subaru and see if you can buy a complete twin scroll setup from a jdm grb ej207.

This would include headers, sump, vf43/vf56 turbo and will bolt straight on. You would also need the tmic from this motor for it to work. This setup will be good for 220-230kwatw and will probably be your cheapest option whilst still retaining twin scroll goodness