Sub box + woofer combo

[nytrojen]

Hi guys. As my next project on the lib, I'm thinking of going for:

http://mobile.bostonacoustics.com/car/car_product.aspx?category_id=17&family_id=129&product_id=371

with

http://www.aerpro.com.au/list.php?pcode=UB10S&cat_name=subwoofer+boxes&cat_no=14&product_name=Universal+Ported+Aerpro+UniBox,+Single+10%22&cat_sno=249

What do you guys think? It's relatively close to the recommended enclosure volume, while still allowing me the dimension to have the box forward firing into the back of the rear seats. That way I still keep access to the spare wheel and I can securely bolt the box to the parcel shelf, AND also still retain access to the ski hatch, which is vital for my snowboard.

I'm thinking of sittin the box on the left of the ski hatch and mounting the amp to the back of the seats on the right hand side... to finally replace the god awful Xplod 10" from my Silvia... in my homemade industrial sized box.

[05gtwagonman]

Just a couple of quick thoughts...

Are you likely to run around with the ski port open in the Lib most of the time?

I ask because I think that there a a couple of things to think about before the optimum size box etc...

Ski port means sedan. Sedan means that if you go with a ported box, you are efectively porting the sub box into a second sub box- the boot. Sound is air movement. Bass is lots of air movement... The only air moving in the cabin in the sealed boot senario is the panels and materials of the car its self. You might as well put a big viberator in there.

That said- it works. Just listen to all the F*ckwits in Falcodores and Lancers running around where the predominant sound is the number plate on the back rattling!!!!

If you put enough power into the sub in this situation you will get plently of bass, but inside the car it's like having the top end in the room with you and the bass coming down the hall from the bathroom, with the pictures on the wall helping out on the way...

Getting sound in the car; easy. Making it good; expensive and time consuming...

Do you have the Mac system, or are you totally reloading the system?
The standard (non premium) has not got a sub as far as I know, but even then you might be in luck with the frame work still in place...
Could you look to reload the existing sub position in the rear shelf with a long throw high power sub, and amp that?
Not as loud as the box option, but this is feeding straight into the cabin, and should work better (more musical), and take up appriciably less space...
Alternatively, push on! your neighbours will love you and you'll look real ricey good like...

BTW- the boston does look good... If you still do the box- go a sealed box- it works better in the sealed boot senario, but still refer to above...

[subnub]

I don't know how much the Liberty seats muffle the sound, but in my old R33 (the boot in them is separated from the cabin by the fuel tank, battery, fuses etc, there are no ports other than some small ventilation gaps and the seats don't fold down) it was fine, the sound most certainly didn't sound like it was coming from down the hallway. I did have a bit of an over-the-top sub/amp though, and spent the time to secure everything... yes, including extra bracing on the front and rear number plates, lol.

Are you doing SQ competitions, or do you just want to fill out the bottom end of your sound? If the latter, as long as you don't have seats and a parcel tray made out of sound-deadening material you probably won't have too much of a problem with it being in the boot and being physically separated from the cabin.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has done this in a Liberty though, I have never put a stereo in one. I'd expect them to be fairly similar to the Skyline in that regard but who knows?

[nytrojen]

I hardly ever drive with the ski hatch down. I ended up buying the ported box to use with my crappy Sony 10" temp sub. But I have to say... the ported box sounds terrible. It's really muddy and there's no tightness to the bass. I've decided to get a sealed box. The Boston G210 is already on order, so I'll just sell off the other box and Sony sub then I get the Boston in.

I've got a complete new headunit in the lib. Got a double din fascia kit and Alpine CDE-103EBT

Btw: The lib sedan seems to have good sound insulation. The boot's almost blowing itself apart but the cabin's still relatively quiet I had no idea the R33 fuel tank was behind the rear seats... that kinda sucks. Even my old S13 had fold down rear seats! The little Sony 10" in that felt like it was kicking me in the spine! Which, I suppose it was... seeing how small the cabin was

I'm not going for SQ comps. I just want some decent, tight bass with a little bit of kick.

[subnub]

Re your ported box sounding muddy, are you sure that was the sub and/or box? A low quality or underpowered amp can cause that, as can not feeding the amp enough power in a timely fashion, or even a box that isn't suited to the sub or idiosyncrasies of the car it's in.

I had issues at one stage with my setup not quite sounding right, there was a slight delay on big hits, and when holding a bass note it'd rapidly die off as the amp was asking for more power than the battery could provide at that point in time. In my case a 1 farad capacitor made an immediate difference. It was much more punchy (listen to almost any Metallica song, IMHO they're not a bad test)... this was from a DVC 15" sub in an 85 litre box with two 4"x23" ports tuned for 23Hz, so not exactly the epitome of tight bass, but I was surprised at just how tight/punchy it sounded.

As a side benefit, the capacitor it stopped that annoying dimming you get from the lights, and smoothed out the potentially damaging electrical noise and brownouts in the car's electrical system.

[05gtwagonman]

I had issues at one stage with my setup not quite sounding right, there was a slight delay on big hits, and when holding a bass note it'd rapidly die off as the amp was asking for more power than the battery could provide at that point in time. In my case a 1 farad capacitor made an immediate difference. It was much more punchy (listen to almost any Metallica song, IMHO they're not a bad test)... this was from a DVC 15" sub in an 85 litre box with two 4"x23" ports tuned for 23Hz, so not exactly the epitome of tight bass, but I was surprised at just how tight/punchy it sounded.

HAHAAHA.... Yup. That sounds about right. Thats a big sub, and a big box, and the porting is massive, so there is almost no mechanical damping factor present in that combination. This the fluffy, or woolly bass...

The little 10 should have less of a problem here, but we are getting no real info on the box size, port size and the amp he's using.

All that said, I think it is right to be looking at the sealed box. This gives you mechanical damping, thus you can spend less on the amp and it will therefore be less likely to need a cap.

A mate could make me ill in his pulsar with a 15'jl sub and the 1000w mono JL amp he had- without the cap installed despite the fact that he still owned it from the systems' previous install.
Granted at high volume it made the lights dim just a little, but the sound wasn't compromised.

The whole system should be matched and great care should be taken and blah blah blah...

Brother, you need to get the sub to vent into the cabin for the best results, or spend up a bit and stick with a sealed box... Even with the right combination of gear though, if you are trying to get enough bass into the cabin to keep you happy when on the move, from a sealed boot install, then you will have massive levels on the go and sound 'ricey doof doof' as you go down the road.
Thems' the facts.

[nytrojen]

Sweet. thanks for the info guys. The amp i'm using is an Eclipse mono block. 320WRMS at 4 ohms. The sub is 300WRMS. I'm hoping it'll be a decent combo. I'm still new to all this stuff. The sealed box i'm gonna get is 0.5 or 0.8 cubic foot, 0.5 is the recommended size for the G210.

A cap is next on the list, cos I think the amp is actually doing damage to the alternator. The old car had a terribly squeeky alternator after a while.

As for the ported box sounding muddy... it's cos the port is pretty much vibrating all the boot trim, cos it's aimed pretty much right at the side trim. I'm hoping the sealed box will help a bit with that.

I'd love to vent into the cabin, but I want minimum modification to the car for when it comes time to sell.

[05gtwagonman]

YUP, thats it then...

[cpitts]

Owning pretty much taht sub (the Boston Pro 10.5LF) I can vouch for the quality of the reproduction it SHOULD be able to produce. The KEY though is getting it directly firing into the cabin.

From my current investigaitons here, you've got 2 options. Custom mount a box to the parcel shelf to help it fire/port directly into the cabin via the parcel shelf sub hole

OR

Do what I did in my WRX and mount the sub box directly against the port and bolt the box to the ski port hole and then but foam around the box face to seal the sub against the back of the seat, firing directly into the cabin. So clean, so tight, and so little power required to make the car VERY full of extremely clean bass.

I'm probably going to do the Liberty with Option 1 above as it doesn't require the port to be constantly pulled down.

I hate the lack of clarity with the sub just in a box in the boot. Yes there's bass (with enough power) but it's all diffused and unclear. No point having LFE if it isn't tight and clean.

[05gtwagonman]

I just had a giggle looking at the progression of this thread...
It would appear there is consensus; you have the power to get some bass without venting to the cabin, but you are going to be much happier if you do vent it...

Should sound sweet if you do... Plenty of quality and power to it...

BTW: I had a wagon, used the OEM mac system and simply put a really effecient JL 12" in a slot port in the back off the Mac amp.
F*ck all power, but the efficient combo of box and driver meant that the 40 of 50 watts form the oem amp still had the ability to move your hair when turned up, and was suprisingly accurate all things considered...
It did me, and the guy who bought the car was impressed enought to buy the sub on top of the cost of the car...

[nytrojen]

Owning pretty much taht sub (the Boston Pro 10.5LF) I can vouch for the quality of the reproduction it SHOULD be able to produce. The KEY though is getting it directly firing into the cabin.

From my current investigaitons here, you've got 2 options. Custom mount a box to the parcel shelf to help it fire/port directly into the cabin via the parcel shelf sub hole

OR

Do what I did in my WRX and mount the sub box directly against the port and bolt the box to the ski port hole and then but foam around the box face to seal the sub against the back of the seat, firing directly into the cabin. So clean, so tight, and so little power required to make the car VERY full of extremely clean bass.

I'm probably going to do the Liberty with Option 1 above as it doesn't require the port to be constantly pulled down.

I hate the lack of clarity with the sub just in a box in the boot. Yes there's bass (with enough power) but it's all diffused and unclear. No point having LFE if it isn't tight and clean.

Not sure if i mentioned it already, but I want to keep the ski hatch free, seeing as it's coming up to snow season soon and I want to be able to slide my snowboard thru. I'm pretty much stuck with a box in the boot, tho I may face it rearwards and see if it affects the noise.

Plus I'm not keen on modifying my car too much as I want to be able to return it to stock in a couple of years time when it comes time to trade in/sell. Also, I'm fairly sure that port in the parcel shelf would only fit an 8", am i correct?

[cpitts]

Yep, was aware of your skiport need, just throwing it out there as an example of how to get better/tighter sound.

You're spot on about the 8" limitation, but if you had a custom box mounted to the shelf (that you could unbolt and remove at a later date) that would give you the reversability you need.

But if you're stiking with the box in the boot scenario, you'll be well placed to sound deaden the boot and rear quarter panels, the improvement in bass will be significant to say the least. Hardest part is removing the super thin liner stuff.

05gtwagonman makes a very good point too, it's about efficiency and box design if you're not looking to move to a bigger amp. 50W isn't nothing, it just needs to be used efficiently.