replacing the amp

[matt]

Hey there, i have an alpine MRD-F752 4ch +sub ch amp sitting in the shed, i used to have it in an old commodore with alpine haed unit alpine speakers and alpine subs, and i thought it sounded pretty darn good. I was wondering if i put this amp in lib (its the 14 speaker mac) will it make much of a difference? The reason i ask is cos apparently the stock head unit and speakers really arent that good, so i guess my question is, will replacing the stock amp improve my stereo? I think i know the answer, but confirmation from people who know what they are doin, and have previous experiance would be helpful.

Cheers Matt.

[loweart]

Short answer is YES, Matt.

But, to really get an improvement that has "synergy" you really need to replace more than just the McIntosh amp that's under the passenger seat.

In my opinion here's how it goes in regards to upgrades

Good - replace the speakers with quality speakers that are efficent and easy to drive

Better - replace the speakers with quality speakers that are efficent & easy to drive as well as a new headunit of good quality

BEST - replace the speakers with quality speakers that are efficent & easy to drive as well as a new headunit of good quality and use a good quality separate multi-channel amp to drive the speakers

Really, I would re-use as much as your Alpine gear as possible in the Liberty where possible.

[tmacca]

I seem to be following you on these posts Lok!

Matt, just to add my two cents worth, I agree (again) that you need to consider the speakers first. Whilst the standard amp is a toy (in the world of car audio) the speakers are only designed to cope with its minimal power output. So with a new amp you will quickly find the limitations of the standard speakers.

Have a read of a few of the previous posts about this issue. I see that it has been discussed a few times. Things are not quite as simple as unplugging the McIntosh amp and throwing in the Alpine. I won’t go into the technical details (as they are covered in depth by others) but the signal from the McIntosh head unit is “balanced” and the input of the Alpine is “unbalanced”. Some form of line converter will be necessary for signal to get from the head unit to the amp (without damaging either).

The amp is certainly useable, but you would be well advised to look at the speakers at the same time.

Hopefully no embarrassing typos this time !!!

[tangcla]

suck what??

I guess it comes down to what you define as sounding 'pretty darn good' - i.e. do you want something with punchy or deep bass, or are you after more mellow trebles? In all honesty, all the Mcintosh bashing aside, they are quite good and fairly mellow for the high-range. Bass is muddy though.

Your mileage may vary.

[loweart]

Gee, I might start getting a complex if you keep following me around the forums

Seriously, thanks for jumping in tmacca in to point out the McIntosh headunit being balanced line-in into the under seat amp.

No typos that I can see this time !

Now tangcla, just easy on there or I'll put a curse on your wiper project !

All jokes aside, the McIntosh system is better than most factory supplied car systems. I'm glad that tangcla mentioned that it was "mellow" sounding, as that's what "ticks" me off a little as a "mellow" or "warm" signature in any sound system is NOT neutral. I realise that all systems add some colouration to the sound, but it's a little too much for these ears.

[tangcla]

All jokes aside, the McIntosh system is better than most factory supplied car systems. I'm glad that tangcla mentioned that it was "mellow" sounding, as that's what "ticks" me off a little as a "mellow" or "warm" signature in any sound system is NOT neutral. I realise that all systems add some colouration to the sound, but it's a little too much for these ears.

I don't mind the mellowness, I like my treble personally, I think that the Mcintosh setup has a fair bit of midrange-treble and it sounds quite nice without being too bright. The bass - it's muddy and I *think* the rear sub is not low-passed, and it could definitely do with a bit more sound deadening on the parcel shelf, but I'm sure if I lowpassed it, it'd be acceptable for me - for now.

On that note - Lok - I know one can make a high-pass with a capacitor, what about low-pass?

[tmacca]

Tangcla,

There is such a thing as a capacitive low-pass filter that I assume decreases the capacitor's impedance with increasing frequency - but I've probably reached my technical limit on that one!

This time not following you Lok (although correct me if I'm wrong on low-pass issue), and no more suck references Tangcla!

[tangcla]

Tangcla,

There is such a thing as a capacitive low-pass filter that I assume decreases the capacitor's impedance with increasing frequency - but I've probably reached my technical limit on that one!

This time not following you Lok (although correct me if I'm wrong on low-pass issue), and no more suck references Tangcla!

then you suck

[matt]

crap. shouldn have sold my SPX 3 way splits then . Oh well, wont bother with it then, besides, like someone said, its still pretty good for a standard issue system. Oh, and by pretty darn good i mean it was loud as hell and pretty bassy, but the bass didnt over power the other sounds, which ive heard from others who just buy subs cos they want bass and dont care about what the actual system sounds like (dreamers!!). So yeah, it was loud had bass and most important of all, it had clarity when it was cranked!!

[loweart]

I'm just glad I'm not the one that "sucks" this time

I think I know what tangcla is suggesting in regards to the sound that comes from the sub on the parcel shelf and I would have "though" it would have been low pass from the amp. Anyone have a schematic of the McIntosh to confirm this is or isn't the case ? Yes, low pass filter can be made, but without knowing what's existing you're just playing around in the dark with capacitance values

I think I need to put my multimeter aside and find a girl instead

[cpitts]

Hey there, i have an alpine MRD-F752 4ch +sub ch amp sitting in the shed, i used to have it in an old commodore with alpine haed unit alpine speakers and alpine subs, and i thought it sounded pretty darn good. I was wondering if i put this amp in lib (its the 14 speaker mac) will it make much of a difference? The reason i ask is cos apparently the stock head unit and speakers really arent that good, so i guess my question is, will replacing the stock amp improve my stereo? I think i know the answer, but confirmation from people who know what they are doin, and have previous experiance would be helpful.

Cheers Matt.

Before the flood of Hi-5's overflow, I'll ask some more obvious questions.

What year/model Lib do you have? If it's the M07 with the fully integrated headunit/HVAC setup, then your amp will need to support Balanced inputs, which from memory the Alpines' don't. But well worth a call to Alpine to check out. The next big issue is that Clarion DONT do a cable to break out the HU pre-out cable to RCA lead (which sucks) and the HU doesn't have RCA outs.

Happy to chat on the options here as I've been trying to get this setup greatly improved myself and have run into a lot of hurdles, including AERPro no longer making the loom adapter for the McIntosh/VT Commodore headunit so you can't just break-out the loom to your own speaker cables

This car is just a little trick for it's audio setup (unlike the MY06 GT and below with it's standard DIN slot face plate.)

[loweart]

Thanks for jumping in with the additional info in regards to the MY07, cpitts.

[matt]

Before the flood of Hi-5's overflow, I'll ask some more obvious questions.

What year/model Lib do you have? If it's the M07 with the fully integrated headunit/HVAC setup, then your amp will need to support Balanced inputs, which from memory the Alpines' don't. But well worth a call to Alpine to check out. The next big issue is that Clarion DONT do a cable to break out the HU pre-out cable to RCA lead (which sucks) and the HU doesn't have RCA outs.

Happy to chat on the options here as I've been trying to get this setup greatly improved myself and have run into a lot of hurdles, including AERPro no longer making the loom adapter for the McIntosh/VT Commodore headunit so you can't just break-out the loom to your own speaker cables

This car is just a little trick for it's audio setup (unlike the MY06 GT and below with it's standard DIN slot face plate.)

I have a 2004/MY05 GT premium pack. The amp is pretty old (maybe 8 years or so???), also, is it just as simple as unplugging the stock one and putting the alpine in using all original cables and wires?

[tmacca]

"14 speaker mac" does to me suggest 07 or later (prior to this they were 13 speaker).

As I suggested in an earlier reply, the balanced out is a pain as is the lack of break out cable. Of course it is not impossible (as I currently run the standard mac/clarion head unit with after market amps/speakers). I did not do the install myself but the person who did also had the skills to transform the back of the mac to give me the necessary rca outs to run to a line converter to give the amps the unbalanced signal. So it can be done, just not easily.

[matt]

"14 speaker mac" does to me suggest 07 or later (prior to this they were 13 speaker).

As I suggested in an earlier reply, the balanced out is a pain as is the lack of break out cable. Of course it is not impossible (as I currently run the standard mac/clarion head unit with after market amps/speakers). I did not do the install myself but the person who did also had the skills to transform the back of the mac to give me the necessary rca outs to run to a line converter to give the amps the unbalanced signal. So it can be done, just not easily.

Sorry buddy, must be 13 speakers, just got confuzzed. Bummer bout it not bein that easy.