club.liberty.asn.au

Hey guys and gals. My first post, yaya!...

I'm wanting to upgrade my sound system after being very disappointed with the "Premium 14 speaker system" I was initially hoping to just add some deep lows with my existing sub but the speakers are that bad I'm going to overhaul the whole thing... exciting! but also costly...

I'm a bit of an audiophile and love quality sound, this doesn't mean I don't want it loud just means I don't want police in the Highway patrol station 500m from my house to hear every word and bass note every-time I leave my house

Budget
I'd LIKE to stay under 2k seeing as i already have my sub. Might push it to 2.5k if i don't get ringed by the GF when she finds out how much it'll all cost me...

Headunit
Ill have to purchase the facial kit (roughly $400) and all i want is a simple single DIN with bluetooth and the usual mod cons, hopefully $300ish. But does the fascial kit require me to get a double DIN? if so that 1k blown...

Front's:
I'm planning on getting something like the the Type R 6.5"splits ($230) or the upgraded Alpine DDL's ($280) which are less than half the RMS that the R's but im hoping double the quality? Has anyone hear a car system with the DDL's before?

Rear:
Type R 6" ($160) type S ($110) alpine 2 way speakers?
The question with this is if i get the DDL's (40watts RMS) for the front will this be over powered by lets say the R's (110watts RMS) in the rears? or a simple amplifier tweek should fix the RMS difference?

Amplifier for speakers
Unsure and not that fussed, not familiar with specs but looks for quality not quantity (watts). Possible Apline or JL Audio amp? ($300-$400ish)

Sub
I have a 12w3v3 sub (500 RMS) in the original slotted port box. I listen to house and high BPM tracks so would investing in a sealed box benefit me so that i get punchier bass?

Amplifier for Sub
I currently own an old (5 or so years) Fusion Power Plant FE 300D powers 270 watt RMS per channel. has two channels. this thing too old? or best i up-grade ($400-500?) May leave the upgraded amp for a later date if thats the case. It'll give the illusion that the whole thing hasnt cost me 3k+

Installer
Big decision here. To do it pro and spend an unknown amount (would $400 be about right? or is it alot more? :S) but get it done properly with sound deadening or make it a weekend job with a mate? (cost: few beers, food, a few broken clips and missing screws?)

p.s. (i don't really know much about the whole 4/2 omhs jargon)

What is usually done with the remaining 7 speakers in the crap 14 speaker system? Best to remove dead weight or leave them in case i sell the beast (not in a long time i hope).

I've seen that you an many people recommend FHRX and I will also look at http://www.autoacoustics.com.au which is local to me. But what are they looking to charge for install with sound deadening at FHRX and if their prices on the speakers and amps are great are the flexible with me buying them then bringing it to them or will this incur further costs?

The prices are listed prices at http://www.Ryda.com.au which is down the road from mine. Should be able to bring down the price if i buy in bulk but if anyone has any better places in the Sydney metro region please let me know. I'm not sure what FHRK and other installers would charge for the speakers. Do they give the gear at a discounted price or am I better buying the stuff separately?

Thought id get some help in the forum before i bombard the poor guys at these install joints

Thanks in advanced everyone!

Wow... thought i had lost this... It had logged me out due to me taking that long and sent me to the log on page...

It must be one of the longest messages in the history of this forum... SORRY!

Good ol' back space saves the day!

Sorry can help on the sound system but fix your header. Gen 5 my07 is not possible ,you do mean gen 4 don't you ?????

sjm69 wrote:Sorry can help on the sound system but fix your header. Gen 5 my07 is not possible ,you do mean gen 4 don't you ?????

The pic is gen 4 so I'd say that is correct.

ENFORCER wrote::shock: Wow... thought i had lost this... It had logged me out due to me taking that long and sent me to the log on page...

It must be one of the longest messages in the history of this forum... SORRY!

Good ol' back space saves the day!

Very risky typing a message that long into the browser Type into a text file and copy it into the browser when our done.

I would suggest finding some bits you want (seems like you already have) and know your budget. Then go to a specialist car audio shop (if they sell things that are not car audio they don't count - in most cases) and tell them what you want, and what your preferred music is (bring your own music), then listen to the speakers thy recommend and get ready to throw all your previous preferences out the window and end up with something you hadn't considered
At least that is my experience. You can't choose speakers you haven't heard (well you can but it's silly to and you could potentially have something better (to your ears) for the same or even less cash.

Last time I bought speakers I had my eye on the top of the line reference model, but after listening ended up with the next model down because to me (and the guy selling them to me) they sounded better for my music preferences.
Those speakers were never on my shopping list until that point but I loved them.

Definitely think about sound deadening, especially in the libs because they are a bit rattly and the doors and boot can definitely use it. A number of people even recommend just sound deadening on stock stereo is good. Not grew though I'd say.

Install prices vary hugely depending on what you get done. Basic installs aren't that expensive and I think it is worthwhile to get a pro to do it.
Don't bother asking for how much FHRX may charge here. Just go ask them yourself. Then you can get pro advice and know exactly what deals they can do for you and if it's worthwhile saving a little more.

For the old speakers, throw them away, maybe try sell them, or keep them (in storage, not in your car )i if you ever might want to return the car stock to sell it (in my opinion not worth it unless your system is more expensive).

Also this is a good post on the topic.
Note that it is quite old so prices and products might have changed a little, but I think it is still useful.

garbo41610 wrote:You will have to take into account a new fascia kit (approx $400) to allow the installation of a new aftermarket head unit. As for quality of equipment, have a think about a budget you want to spend and some speakers, amps etc can be advised to suit. However, you can use this as a guide from FHRX Studios here in Sydney (one of, if not THE best installers in the country):
$500 System
Source Unit: Clarion CZ201A / Crystal EDB410BT / Eclipse CD1200 / Sony CDXGT290
Front Speakers: Boston S95.3 / DLS426 / Eclipse SE6500 / Focal 690CA / Hertz ECX 690 / Orion CO650 / Polk DB650 / Rainbow Dream Line KS165

$1000 System
Source Unit: Clarion CZ201A / Crystal EDB410BT / Eclipse CD5030
Front Speakers: Boston S60 / Crescendo Opus 1 / DLS B6A / Eclipse SE6500 / Focal 165V1 / Hertz ESK165 / Orion CO625 / Polk DB6501 / Rainbow Sound Line SAC 265 25
Amplifier: ARC KS300.2 / Audison SR2 / DLS CA22 / Eclipse XA4200 / Focal SOLID2 / Genesis Profile 4 / Orion CO300.2 / Zapco Reference 350.2
Cable: Audison Connection / Stinger
Deadening: Dynamat / FhrxPaint / Stinger

$2000 System
Source Unit: Clarion CZ301A / Eclipse CD5030 / JVC KD-R826BT
Front Speaker: Boston SR60 / Crescendo Opus 3 / DLS MS6A / Eclise SC6500 / Focal 165V2 / Hertz HSK165 / Morel Ovation 6 / Orion C2.62 / Polk DB6501 / Rainbow Sound Line SAC 265 25
Amplifier: ARC XDi803 / Audison SR4 / Boston GTA504 / DLS CA31 / Eclipse XA4200 / Focal SOLID4 / Genesis Profile 4 / Orion CO600.4 / Zapco Reference 360.4
Subwoofer: Boston G212 / Crescendo Etude1.10 / DLS RW12 / Eclipse SW6012 / Focal 30A1 / Hertx ES300 / Image Dynamics ID12 / Orion CO1248
Cable: Audison Connection / Stinger
Deadening: Dynamat / FhrxPaint / Stinger

$3000 System
Source Unit: Clarion CZ501A / Becker Grand Prix / JVC KD-R926BT
Front Speaker: Audison Voce / Boston Pro60SE / Crescendo Opus 5 / DLS Nortica / Focal 165KP / Hertz HSK165 / Morel Ovation 6 / Orion C2.62 / Polk MMC6500 / Rainbow CS 265 Profi
Amplifier: ARC Audio KS300.4 / Audison SR4 / Boston GTA504 / Eclipse XA4200 / Focal FPS4.160 / Genesis Profile Ultra 4 / Zapco Reference 360.4
Subwoofer: Audison Voce / Boston G212 / Crescendo Etude1.10 / DLS UR12 / Eclipse SW8200 / Focal 33V1 / Hertx HX300 / Image Dynamics IDQ12 / Orion HP12
Cable: Audison Connection / Stinger / Furutech
Battery: Odyssey PC1200MJT / Optima D35 / Stinger SPV44
Deadening: Dynamat / FhrxPaint / Stinger

You will notice there are no mainstream brands like Pioneer, Kenwood, Fusion etc listed. There is a good reason for this

Pips06 has a very nice install viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5899 I'm not a fan of Kenwood but the install has turned out very nice
Andy85 has a beautiful install with some spectacular gear (Crescendo gives me a massive chubby) viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10899 The only problem for you is he is using the OEM head unit with a processor.

Will you be doing the install yourself or getting it professionally done? If professionally, where are you located so some decent installers can be suggested??? When I say decent I am talking about places like FHRX They are without doubt in the top 2 in NSW (don't let anyone tell you differently) and easily the top 5 in the country. Steer clear of places like JB Hifi, Strathfield Car Radio, Autobarn etc, you will end up having to take the car somewhere else to get the install fixed up properly and still be left with off the shelf gear that sounds ordinary.

The thing with car audio is (read: should be), do it once and do it right. In my case though, my car stereos have taken many different iterations over the years. I was never happy and ended up spending a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of money on every aspect of car audio upgrades. I didn't get slugged too hard though because I did almost all the installs myself

Hopefully this give you a starting point.

Cheers,
Garbo.

Also, what is your music preference if you don't mind sharing?

Epic reply for an epic post

sjm69 wrote:Sorry can help on the sound system but fix your header. Gen 5 my07 is not possible ,you do mean gen 4 don't you ?????

WOOPS! yes i do

rooby wrote:Also, what is your music preference if you don't mind sharing?

Epic reply for an epic post

I'm more of the upbeat, high BPM music. electro house, progressive house and a bit of dance/trance(less as i'm ageing )

Hahaha yes, thanks for the thourough post Reuben will look into it further. Great re-post aswell. I popped by the RYDA store today... their sound boards were quite bare and only had the main stream cheap stuff. I'll pay FHRX a visit during the week if i have time.

Would it be worth me leaving the head unit and just upgrading the speakers (and sub amp)? (I want the car to look stock and a single DIN will look odd. but in saying that, getting a double DIN touch screen plus fascia will set me back about the 1k mark already...Don't know if i can justify spending that if the stock HU will suffice). I understand that I wont have a sub control and very limited EQ settings but was just curious to any thoughts.

Has anyone been to http://www.autoacoustics.com.au and had a system installed by them? Reviews?

If you don't have to have a screen (I don't see much point seeing as I can't watch it while driving), something like this is good value for money. Has pretty much all the features you can think of. Better features than a low end screen type head unit.
http://www.ryda.com.au/JVC-KW-R900BT-Ca ... r900bt.htm

You can get away with the stock head unit but I would say you ill get better results by replacing it.

You can't just plug and play any amp with the stock head unit because it doesn't have RCA out.
I won't bother going into detail because mihai already has viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8395
This is also something the FHRX guys can give you info and recommendations on.

Doing things once and right is a serious thing. My advice for u is to head down to FHRX n have a talk to marty. Go and do more research on what u really want. Since you're an audiophile, chances are that you're going to want more n more sound quality therefore going to increase your budget
You will end up with a totally different setup than u first thought. Ive changed my mind many times, even one the day marty installed the amp, i called back to upgrade a little more to get the most out of it. Hehehheh

You could also head down to the lifestyle store at north parra. not sure how far away you are from them. whilst FHRX do get a good wrap on here, lifestyle have been the guys ive dealt with and have only had great results. Rodney and Laurence down there are great to deal with. There are a number of good builds on here to have a look at.

rooby wrote:You can't just plug and play any amp with the stock head unit because it doesn't have RCA out.
I won't bother going into detail because mihai already has viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8395
This is also something the FHRX guys can give you info and recommendations on.

Thanks for that Reuben however that guide won't work with the McIntosh system.

Main reason as pointed out by Reuben is that the stock headunit doesnt have RCA outs. Nor does it have Line Level (Speaker level) outputs. The way the McIntosh system works is that the headunit receives power, ground and acc. And there is a proprietary cable that sends balanced signals from the headunit to the McIntosh amp under the passenger seat. From there, the amp does all the work and speaker level outputs are after the amp.

So in theory, you COULD take the speaker level outputs from the amp, and re-run those to another amp, however you will be amping a signal twice.

On top of that, if you take a shit signal and amp it, it will output a shitter signal.

As Andy has said. Do it once. Do it right. Forget about stock headunit. Spend the cash and upgrade the headunit. I forgot who, but someone did this and ran the door speakers off the aftermarket headunit. Disconnected the sub. And said that the system sounded much better. Even with the removal of the sub.

Thanks Michael, i had read your thread you posted a while back when you left your HU and added an amp. What was the amp used for and what was your take on that? (Obviously not well due to your current system but just curious)

Got a couple of days off so hopefully ill have time to pop in and speak to Marty.

ENFORCER wrote:Thanks Michael, i had read your thread you posted a while back when you left your HU and added an amp. What was the amp used for and what was your take on that? (Obviously not well due to your current system but just curious)

At the time it was used to power my front Clarion splits and my Vibe Space 8" parcel shelf sub.

Went OK. However it wasn't providing enough power to the sub. When I upped the speakers, it couldnt provide enough power to those either so I upgraded the amp to my PDX4.150. Once I installed the headunit, during headunit testing my mate blew my sub and well, went through 3 subs in the space of 1 week (due to not liking the way they sounded).

mihai wrote:At the time it was used to power my front Clarion splits and my Vibe Space 8" parcel shelf sub.

Ahh k. How did you get rid of the ridiculous amount of vibrations from the parcel shelf from the 8"? Dynamat? and was an enclosure mounted to it/are there any you know of available?

Previously i have upgraded my HU to a Pioneer double din jobbie.
Which made the speakers sounds heaps better than off the amp.
Issue there is no sub, but still sounded pretty good.
Anyway some of the cones had let go in the rears.

So i just spent the xmas break doing this upgrade.
I replaced the Sub, rears, fronts, amp & dynamated up the doors, shelf etc.
I'm still getting the staging worked out but it sounds amazing in contrast but anything would i guess.
So xmas means some presents etc so i got some new stuff and some old stuff and put it all in the car.
I used:

I had some older SoundStream reference 3 way 6 inches from an older car so i have reused those for the rear doors.
*
*(The ones before these basically the same but blue)
I went with a Soundstream RF8W - 8 inch free to air sub (NEW)

SoundStream RF-60C Splits in the front (NEW) + 1 of the stock tweaters

(i reused the doorcil tweeter and wired it into the crossover as an extra tweater as it was there and sounded pretty good).
Alpine PDX-5 AMP (NEW) (i wanted a under seat install)

Pioneer double din (Older previously installed)
Rear camera, aux in, video out and video in cables run while i was at it.
1x 24 case of Coopers dark ale

DAY 1
So i tackled the sub first, and 7 hours later that was in, mind you i wasn't working flat out i mean it was the holidays.
But still you need to take the whole rear seats out and i needed to make a 15mm spacer to get that b@$t@rd in.
I matted the shelf while i was at it. Not the whole thing but a solid area around the hole all the way to the right and maybe half way to the middle.
I can put it underneeth if i get vibrations anyway.

DAY 2
The doors were easy in comparison but taking another full day to do everything, i needed spacers for those as well, solid 15mm for the fronts and 10mm for the rears.
But i just bought them and saved time making them.
I had to mcguiver the huge tweeters in but i have some pics if people are interested.
The actual cross over was an issue as well but again mcguiver-ing skills were up to the task.
There is a foam section in the bottom left of the front doors near the red light area, i removed that scrapped off the glue them matted that section.
From there i got some 3M double sided car body tape, this stuff is seriously industrial.
I covered the back of the crossovers and stuck it on the matted area with some weights on top and waited an hour.
By the time it has bonded i could pick up the entire door trim just holding the crossover. So i'm fairly sure it's not comming off in a hurry.

Matted the outer metal skin of the doors and the internal sections. I didn't go crazy but covered a decent area.
I have found that you dont need to go bananas but you can't be too stingy.
I tend to save several sheets and wait till i work out what is buzzing later and then add more in those areas, if that makes sence.
But to give you an idea i bought 15 feet and i have maybe 4 left for extra. So i wouldn't say i've been too stingy.

DAY 3
So that had all the speakers in as well as the sub, so it was time to tackle the AMP.
So I've never done a floor /underseat install of an amp before and I wasn't keen on drilling into the floor.
So I got some left over MDF and made up a rectangle slightly larger than the amp.
screwed the amp to that and drilled some ancher holes, i then put the mounting brackets back from the stock amp and got some very large cable ties.
It works nicely and doen't look overly daft, plus importantly no movement etc.
I ran the RCA cables through centre console with the signal switch wire and under the carpet and out through a little hole near the amp.
I found a plastic bung plug covering a spare hole near the handbrake and sanded the paint off to use that with a bolt for the earth.
Running the power cable was a tricky bit but once i worked that out it was about an hour run that.
Had to pull up the passenger side carpet and remove the door sil, i used the large grommet on the passenger side and the hardest part was poking a hole in that thing to get the cable through. But once that was sorted it was a cake walk. used the wire clips along the door and in throught he other side of the amp.
Threw in a fuse near the battery. Fired it up and then played with the speakers wires till they were all firing out the correct speakers.
The sub wire was not run as i forgot, duh! Ehh wait till tomorrow.

DAY 4
So it was all working but i wanted to run the sub cable and while i was at it run a rear camera cable and a aux in cable and ipod cable.
Since the centre console was out i figured what the hey right.
So had to remove the actual lower rear seat only this time, not all of it (15 minutes only, fhew)
So ran them under the rear carpet and up under the seats through the useless cubby ski flappy thingy.
So after that it was all a matter of working out what all the bolts and screws and stuff when were and vaccuming up the little bits of wire housing and bottle caps that were everywhere.
Then i started playing with the staging etc to make it sound right.
I'm mega chuffed with the clarity, it's great. I listen to rock so think greenday, foo fighters, pearl jam, etc so i'm not a doof doof dance man etc so it has base without making your ears bleed and important to me the mids sound great and the highs are cristal clear.

NOTES and TIPS
I'd recommend removing both the front seats for this much work but do the rear stuff first so you can put the rear seats back in so you have a place to work from.

I put the centre mid back in the front doors not hooked up to anything as i could see through the speaker grill that nothing was there and it looked weird.

Now i use to be a huge advocate of twisting speakers and them soldering and heat shrinking and I guess to a point I still am however i recently discovered via a sparky mate some wire joiner products. I think it's from ARLEC and basically it works like an old school TV AMP, you take your wires and feed them into a metal circle area with a screw in the side of it and clamp them all down. Super easy, super fast and removable. I still advocate for massively perminent stuff to run down a solder route but i thought i'd give these things a try.
I also got a bunch of sparky crinkle wrappers for the wires and where i couldn't use that i taped the hell out of them, then taped that to the matted wall so they wouldn't move about.

if you have gloves, wear them, i'm a tallish lad at 6,4 but i also have very large hands. Large hands that are now covered in cuts and were bleading everyday from some sharp thing or bashed other thing. Anyway i didn't find my mechanic gloves till day 4 and by then my hands were sore and they still hurt. OK so maybe some of that is clumsiness/oafishness but not to much of it. Especially running the power cable, and the mat inside the doors. Ouchy knuckles and fingers!
Hope that helps some one with their install.
If your thinking about doing it and have some questions let me know.
Cheers, Scott

I'm super impressed with the Alpine PDX-5 amp BTW
not cheap but it has a tiny foot print runs really cool and pumps out a really nice amount of juice for the system i'm running.

good sub install viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17131