upgrading mcintosh - help needed

[cyrus_b]

Hi guys, i have an 07 GT with the mcintosh unit.

Im not too thrilled with the sound and i wanna upgrade it without changing the head unit. I have a few questions and figured i'd ask some of you pro's out there to help me:

1. Do i need to change the headunit to improve the sound greatly?
2. Do i need to change the amp to improve the sound?
3. If i were to get a new amp, a line converter and new speakers, would it make a great deal of difference, or am i wasting my cash?
4. Is there any way to stop the factory sub rattling so very much?

And obviously any advice from people as to what i should be doing, if not mentioned in the questions above. Im kinda a noob wen it comes to this kinda stuff, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[tmacca]

A frequently discussed topic - do a bit of research on the forum and you will find detailed answers.

But briefly:

1. NO (again, many different opinions here)
2 and 3. Amp/speaker upgrade will make a huge difference, but sound deadening would be first change. That may be all you need - but is not wasted money if you then decide to replace the toy amp and 1000 and 1 speakers.
4. Depending on the source of the rattle, the sound deadening may solve this problem - so to would a decent sub!

More details, do a search!

[kaycy]

Rattling of the sub may mean that the paper cone is broken.

You need to spend time in other cars to appreciate a Mac.

[cpitts]

Fully deaden the doors and parcel shelf.

This will go a LOOOOOONG way to improving the cars audio.

I did my MY07 GT-B (there's a full thread here about it or click on my WWW link below in my sig for pics on my blog/site) and the VAST improvement just from properly deadening the car would satisfy ~95% of audio listeners.

After that, you're looking at good quality speakers to replace stockers then the HU/Amp is a double change-over exercise which is where I'm at next.

Deadening and good quality speakers though go a HUGE way to getting much nicer sound. In fact, just the Deadening would give you 90% ipmrovement with another 5% coming from the speakers (if you buy good ones).

[nytrojen]

Fully deaden the doors and parcel shelf.

This will go a LOOOOOONG way to improving the cars audio.

I did my MY07 GT-B (there's a full thread here about it or click on my WWW link below in my sig for pics on my blog/site) and the VAST improvement just from properly deadening the car would satisfy ~95% of audio listeners.

After that, you're looking at good quality speakers to replace stockers then the HU/Amp is a double change-over exercise which is where I'm at next.

Deadening and good quality speakers though go a HUGE way to getting much nicer sound. In fact, just the Deadening would give you 90% ipmrovement with another 5% coming from the speakers (if you buy good ones).

Cpitt's been banging on about deadening for ages now, and for good reason. It's probably the quickest and cheapest/easiest to improve the sound inside the cabin. Although I haven't deadened mine (yet), i've heard the difference it makes in my mate's car.

As for the sub rattling... is it buzzing or rattling? If it's buzzing, the cone may be damaged. If it's rattling, it may not be the sub itself, but the surrounding trim.

[cyrus_b]

well thanks for the advice guys, heres where im at:

i had a new alpine PDX 5channel amp and a alpine Type S sub for another install i never did, so i had them installed. first i used convertors and plugged it in post factory amplifier - this created alot of hiss in the system and i was advised by No Limit Elec in melbourne it was bad for the Alpine amp. So i had an RCA conversion done and its been refitted.

The system now has only a little hiss, but still audible at low volumes - any advice as to why and how to remove this?

While i havent gotten round to retuning the amp since the RCA conversion, the sound is still a bit rubbish - too much sharpness in the treble and missing mid sounds. Im just not sure it sounds any good in terms of quality. Also it distorts at high volumes...

I know sound deadening has been stressed here, but im worried about its lack of effect on the sound QUALITY itself - considering it costs almost as much as a new set of speakers!

Would doing anything with a processor be necessary or useful in this situation, or am i limited by the components im using, and can i improve them much (obviousyly id like to keep the stock HU)?

Im mildly worried i picked a very basic, low level amp to replace the Mcintosh with... does anyone have any experience or advice with the Alpine PDX series?

Otherwise, i think sound deadening is on the cards, unless there are any other suggestions to improve the quality of the sound? Maybe some kind of processor or equaliser unit??

This is an expensive freakin car stereo upgrade... u gotta wonder why subaru make everything so very complicated with their audio systems...

thanks guys

[cpitts]

Given you're out West of Melb Cy, where are you located. Perhaps we could catch up and you could have a listen to my car. Basically the same as yours but w/o amp or RCA conversion.

I have a PDX amp ready to go for my sub conversion.
I will also be using a PDX amp for my other 4 channels (fronts and rears) when I source one.

There's nothing wrong with them, but I'm not sure they can actually accept balanced inputs which is what the Mc outputs. Hence, your hiss may well be a result of needing a Bal to unBal converter.

I've chosen the PDX as I'll be replacing my HU with another unit purely for SQ reasons.

With my current setup, I got rid of all the HISS as it was a result of the crap crossover setup in the factory speakers (front doors esp) and replaced it with decent components.

Reading your other posts, it doesn't appear that you've done front speaker replacement, so I'd do that next. That should get rid of that annoying hiss coming from where the tweeters should be doing their job. The problem is, what do you replace them with? I did a lot of hunting before I made my choice, but it was well worth it. Take your time and listen to a lot of setups, a well deadened door with the standard Mc speakers actually still sounds pretty good, but you won't get rid of the hiss until you remove the capacitor network that's glued to each speaker as frequency clippers.

[cyrus_b]

Sorry for the late reply to your post cpitts. And thanks again for the advice. Im located out near Essendon if you're interested mate.

Well i've arranged to get the front doors and rear shelf deadened, so im hoping that makes a big difference.

When i got round to tuning the amp, i found that the first installer had turned the gains on every speaker to max - hence causing alot of hiss - so i turned them down and eliminated about 50% of the hiss, but lost alot of power at the same time. I guess this is something i will have to live with.

If its my speakers' crossover network causing the hiss, they will also have to be replaced, but imight wait and hunt till i get them really cheap... Cos this is becoming more expensive than i first envisaged. And i guess i'll need to look into the balanced to unbalanced convertor for the Alpine amp.

My new problem comes from the MP3s - they sound really shit on the system. Normal CDs sound fine but I guess the new found clarity in the system highlights the downfalls of compressed music. However, the convenience of MP3s is great.
When i use both an MP3 CD or my ipod thru the EA1251, the hiss is more audible and the quality is severely dropped. And with the EA1251, the volume drops considerably compared to any other source.

Is there anyway to increase the volume of the EA1251 ipod source? And is it worth me putting in something like Audison's Bit One or Alpine's version of that (forget the code)? They provide parametric EQ's and clean up the head units preset EQ, and im not sure what else. Is it possible to use these or another product to clean up the MP3s or make them sound better in some way? I've used my ipod in my last setup (no amp, Pioneer HU) and it was 10x better.

Again, I appreciate your guys advice, i dont know much about this stuff so need someone to help me without conning me to buy something with the biggest markup!

And to cpitts: i have another PDX 5ch amp if you're interested. My mate gets them wholesale from Alpine, so i got 2 (as i was gonna install it into another car, but have decided against that).

[cpitts]

Yeah, MP3's are crap. Esp if you're downloading them via iTunes. All low quality 192kb/s trash.

Download some 320kb/s MP3's or FLAC's and convert them to MP3's. You'll hear the difference.

Good news on the deadening. When they do the front doors, make sure they do both layers (outside shell and inside metal skin (that the speakers are mounted onto)) makes a world of difference to flatness of response.

Yep, this is a costly exercise. That's why I've approached it incrementally from the cheapest mods up. Deadening was the easiest get but took a lot of time. Speakers next which have got it to quite a nice state really. At this stage, amp, HU and using my cabling I've put in are the next step and will most likely cost ~$4000 to do (above costs already incurred).

My AUX in on my setup is SO low as well, actually, horrendously low. Then again, I never use it so it's no biggy for me. Maybe the dealer can offer a suggestion on how to adjust it (or give Clarion [they make/suppt McIntosh in AU] a buzz maybe????).

As for EQ balancers, it's up to you. Get all other stuff changed/setup first THEN figure out if you don't like the sound. I think we need to meet up to have a listen to each others systems, you may be surprised what can be achieved with the standard system and well selected speakers. I currently have all my HU EQ's set to 0 and the sound is very flat as a couple on here can attest to (tangcla and pplwu).

I'll be on the run this Sunday if you wanna audition some songs.

w.r.t the 5ch PDX, it's too low power for what I need. I've already got a PDX 1.600 for the sub (it's a 1000w sub) and need a 4.150 (or a bit more) for the front doors (I'd bridge it up to ~250W @ 4Ohms) which is enough to breathe life into the DynAudio 3-ways I have. But thanks for the offer!

[cyrus_b]

id love to come on the run on sunday, but unfortunately i work all weekend, and almost all week so i have very little spare time... this sunday i'll be working from 10am for about 12 hours so that cuts me out for any driving pleasures lol...

but maybe when im more free we could get together and you could give me sum advice.... i appreciate the offer...

thanks

[Ric]

Note, the run isn't THIS sunday, it's on the 26th!
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5678

[cpitts]

Note, the run isn't THIS sunday, it's on the 26th!
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5678

Ohhh, woops. Thanks for the pickup. I'll re-align the family.

[cyrus_b]

well, still waiting on some time to book in the deadening (not game to try myself...).

have been reading and i think i might try one of the OEM integration units like Alpine's PXE-H650, Audison's BitOne, or Rockford 360.2.
does anyone have any advice or opinions about these options?

im feeling my stereo is lacking in 'staging' and clarity, and im assuming the setup from the Mac unit is not great, and also designed for the Mac amp specifically, including the centre channel speaker. Now that ive removed this speaker and amp, the channels sent out from the head unit proably dont match the cars current setup. Im assuming the processors would fix these situations.

However, i now regret doing the RCA conversion - as quality didnt increase by very much, and i could have connected one of these processors after the Mac amp - or is that a bad idea??

Still looking at getting a bit more power out of the system (i've turned the gains on the amp down to get rid of the hiss, but have lost oudness in doing so).

and this will be coupled with the deadening. any opinions???

love the advice boys (and girls..)

[cpitts]

I think I need to do a trip out to your place so you can hear a deadened car with replacement speakers off the std HU. :_b:

I have no issues with hiss any more. I have issues with volume, EQ fine tuning, sound stage, depth and top end/bottom end clarity, but that's mainly b'cos I'm a fussy bastard.

For the vast majority of listeners, the car would sound amazingly good for a stock stereo.

[Ric]

I think I need to do a trip out to your place so you can hear a deadened car with replacement speakers off the std HU. :_b:
...

No need.
cyrus_b is planning on seeing Tangcla at the start of the meet on Sunday.
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