Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Wed May 05, 2021 9:47 pm

Oil pressure gauge added.

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See the DIY thread for more details. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36812
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:45 pm

Brakes

The stock SH Forester brakes are so small as to be scary.

Upgraded front brakes of a Gen 4 or Gen 5 Liberty GT are excellent value for excellent brakes. Here are some shots a few days after installation (with nice new heat-resistant paint), followed by a photo taken after a "happy laps" day at Qld Raceway where the paint has turned to ash:

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More recently I finally got around to upgrading the rears from the solid rotor stock units...

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...to the slightly larger ventilated rotors from the rear of a Gen 5 Liberty (or Toyota 86 GTS - same brakes):

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The scuff marks on the rotor face are from when I used a soft grinding disk to clean off the rust. They will disappear with a bit more wear from the brake pads.

I have not experienced (and was not expecting) a change in braking feel on the road, since the ABS unit apportions brake force between front and rear as needed - and the fronts do most of the work anyway. However:

(a) for occasions where the ABS fuse must come out (dirt days, skid pan days, etc.) the front-to-rear balance should now be better; and

(b) for tarmac track days, the tiny bit of extra rear rotor diameter and the substantially better rear cooling from the ventilated rotors should be worthwhile on account of every bit of braking force being handy under those conditions.

Thanks for reading.
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Turbo Lag » Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:09 pm

Yowie wrote:Oil pressure gauge added.

***

See the DIY thread for more details. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36812


Finally!! Looks the part, glad you went the separate gauges too. :good:

Any abnormalities or querks you're noticing with your numbers?

Yowie wrote:Brakes

***

Thanks for reading.


May I ask what pad/fluid combo you're running? Yes the GT brakes are an excellent upgrade - one of the best bang for buck routes you can go with. The calipers look amazingly clean too. :lol:

I didn't notice any difference in brake feel going from standard to the GT caliper set up. It's all in the fluid/pad depth/MC. Going to a monoblock caliper however makes a very big difference.

Interestingly enough I've tried the rear solid and vented back to back on track (on my 2.5i mind you) and noticed 0 difference in braking. I think the fronts were just that big that the rears made little to no difference. However on a heavier and more powerful Foz I'm sure they'd be a bit more necessary.
'04 Subaru Liberty 2.5i Safety Pack Sedan 5MT & '08 Subaru Liberty GT-B Tuned by STI Wagon 6MT & '00 Toyota Altezza RS200-Z 6MT & '16 Honda CB500F
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:23 pm

Cheers Turbo Lag

Any abnormalities or querks you're noticing with your (oil pressure) numbers?


This is the first car I've had with an oil pressure gauge so this is not so much a "comparison " as a report of the consistent pattern with 10W40.

- about 98-100psi on cold start fast idle

- up to 110 psi if you have no choice but to give it some before the oil has gotten properly warm. I'm sure it would be higher if I drove it cold with no mechanical sympathy.

- about 50psi at "normal idle" at about 50 degrees C oil temp.

- about 16-18psi "normal idle" at final commuting oil temp (88-99 degrees C)

- takes up to 10 minutes of driving to get to final commuting oil temp (88-99 degrees C)

- pressure well below 100psi "giving it some" when the oil is properly up to temp. More data required.

- assuming constant temp, oil seems to have the closest relationship with engine revs (which makes sense for a crank-driven oil pump). It's probably not a perfectly linear relationship but I can't prove that.



May I ask what pad/fluid combo you're running? Yes the GT brakes are an excellent upgrade - one of the best bang for buck routes you can go with.



Stock Subaru pads. Whatever fluid the local non-dealer Subaru mechanic uses. I've had no complaints about the stock gear, but I've only done three dirt-track rally days and one racetrack "happy laps", so I'm sure the limits would be found if I got more serious about track days.


Yeah, the GT brakes are brilliant as an upgrade, especially from the tiny stock Forester brakes. My wife (who is skeptical of all my car upgrading ideas) thanked me out of the blue the other day for making sure her near-stock Forester got GT front brakes. Some emergency stop incident had left her with a lot of confidence.


The calipers look amazingly clean too


Cheers. They turned up in reasonable condition, but some time with a wire wheel in a cordless drill (and other wire brush scrubbing, plus use of brake cleaner spray) got them quite presentable. Temporarily of course.



Interestingly enough I've tried the rear solid and vented back to back on track (on my 2.5i mind you) and noticed 0 difference in braking. I think the fronts were just that big that the rears made little to no difference. However on a heavier and more powerful Foz I'm sure they'd be a bit more necessary


Probably still negligible difference to a Forester too. My reasons for doing the rears too were:

1. I already had everything for the upgrade except for one caliper (due to a repeated sender stuff-up back in the day). More recently I saw my stock rear rotors were getting a bit thin and couldn't fathom spending more on stock-size rear rotors. A Canberra-based Gumtree seller was unloading a pair of Toyota 86 GTS calipers cheaply so happy days.

2. The "bigger and vented is better" irrational/vanity factor that most of us fall for to some degree with car mods :lol:

3. The sense of a "balanced set front & rear" probably being better if I do more track (or dirt track) stuff with the ABS fuse pulled. Obviously a front bias is nice and safe, but getting the rears to do a bit more when off the electronic stability control leash is probably a good thing.
Last edited by Yowie on Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:27 am

Minor update. This morning the oil pressure gauge earned it's spot.

The car has been off the road for a few weeks waiting for a spot at the mechanic (with lockdowns adding to the delay).

Oil is likely to have drained out of the engine with that sort of rest.

I pulled out the Fuel Pump fuse then cranked the engine for a surprising amount of time until the gauge showed oil pressure. Without the gauge I would have assumed that n seconds of cranking would be enough and stopped early - leaving the engine to start with dry bearings momentarily.
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby bigBADbenny » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:09 am

Amazing. How long is the oil pressure sensor hose from block to sensor?

On dbw cars you can mat the accelerator on key on: anti flood mode, to prime the engine.
Just an alternative to pulling the fuel pump fuse :)
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:07 am

How long is the oil pressure sensor hose from block to sensor?


About 60cm (per the catalogue description). Conveniently it's about the length from the front-of-block pressure sensor port to the firewall.

On dbw cars you can mat the accelerator on key on: anti flood mode, to prime the engine.
Just an alternative to pulling the fuel pump fuse :)


Do you mean hold wide-open-throttle as you crank the engine as some kind of built-in "fuel pump switched off" function?
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby bigBADbenny » Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:03 am

That’s the one :)
Cranking time is still limited by not overheating the starter motor, of course.

Its fascinating about the delay in gaining oil pressure on recommissioning a drained down car.
Its not even possible that that 60cm oil line plays a part?
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:53 pm

Cheers for the wide-open-throttle tip, although I'm a bit nervous about cranking a cold engine with the accelerator pressed to the floor. I might try it with a hot engine first and be prepared to back off the pedal quickly.


Its fascinating about the delay in gaining oil pressure on recommissioning a drained down car.
Its not even possible that that 60cm oil line plays a part?


Due to lockdown my wife's almost-stock SH Forester was also off the road for a bit (not as long as mine*). A few days before my car's "cranking with fuse pulled" re-start I did the same thing with hers, albeit without the benefit of an oil pressure gauge.

I cranked her starter* for a fair bloody while (by my standards of that moment) and the little red oil pressure light didn't go out. I ended up quitting the dry cranking, replaced the fuse and started the car normally.

The point of all this is that, based on the limited evidence of both cars taking ages to get oil pressure under dry-cranking*, I'd be willing to discount "60cm line from block to pressure sensor" as a significant source of delay in "actual pressure vs gauge pressure".


(*fans of the double entendre have a full buffet available to them in this post)

EDIT - bear in mind that the oil pump (& whole engine) is spinning a lot slower under no-fuel cranking than it is when it starts normally. "No oil pressure for many seconds" dry-cranking probably translates to "no oil pressure for 1 second" for a normal start after a bit of a lay-up.
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 pm

K-type thermocouple air temperature sensors and dual digital gauges

A bit of a photo essay follows regarding the installation of K-type temperature probes (pre and post stock intercooler) and mounting the digital gauges in the console in front of the gear stick.

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First some 3mm aluminum plate was cut to size (including correct angles for the console) for the gauge mount face plate. Strong clamping and plenty of WD40 is handy when using a hole saw this size.

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The rearward rake of the faceplate needs to be taken into account when selecting gauge location and model in terms of depth. Too deep and you won't clear the floor of the space.

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I selected alloy rivnuts to hold the brackets to hold the faceplate. You could just put screws straight into the plastic, but rivnuts will allow repeated disassembly without chewing the threads/holes out.

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As you can see below, the back of the rivnuts need to be in clear air within the OEM plastic insert that sits behind that part of the dash trim. Note also that I have only lightly squeezed the rivnuts so the plastic hole does not get torn.

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The face of the rivnut sits proud of the surface. In the absence of more sophisticated milling gear a 10mm spade bit (usually for drilling timber) did quite a good job creating a matching depression on the 3mm alloy bracket. Go slow and use wd40.

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The brackets themselves were remarkably time-consuming to make due to the lack of 90 degree angles and the plastic walls not staying on the same plane where they need to go. The driver's side bracket contains a few errors (not that they will be seen with the faceplate on) but the passenger-side bracket turned out pretty well.

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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:29 pm

Getting a 1/8NPT female thread (to receive sensors) into the stock air path was tricky.

I bought two of these Revotec fittings from the UK. They work in silicone or hard flat surfaces and hold pressure.

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"Plan A" was to install one in the throttle body hose, however there was insufficient clearance for all the sensor fittings and tail-end on any suitably flat-ish parts of the throttle body hose.

"Plan B" became installing the cool-side fitting on the flat part of the plastic intercooler end tank just below the blowoff valve ("BoV") on the firewall side.

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I had a previous leaking OEM intercooler lying around, so I removed the cool-side end tank of that one to get the exact centre-point for the fitting from the inside and also see how much BoV-mount plastic I could die-grind away for clearance without rupturing the end-tank.

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For those playing at home, the centre point outside measurements are 17mm from the start of the flat plane on the rubber mount end and 7.5mm from the start of the flat plane on the inside corner of the BoV mount.

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If you haven't already, get yourself a set of "transfer punches" to make marking the centre of a hole on another surface very easy.

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Last edited by Yowie on Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:46 pm

With the centre hole pilot-drilled on the real intercooler, I did a neater job with the die grinder and dremel to make the clearance "flat" on the outside of the non-test item.

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Interior photo below showing the K-type thermocouple temperature probe poking into the cool-side end tank. The location is probably not ideal in the sense that the back of the intercooler will probably receive better ambient airflow than the front, therefore the probe will show a lower air temp than the mean. However, beggars definitely cannot be choosers in terms of location of fitting in the OEM setup. "Y pipe" style OEM setups, those with all-alloy intercoolers, those willing to just shove a K-type wire under a hose clamp etc. probably have more choice of sensor location.

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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:51 pm

This cold-side sensor location necessitated getting clearance of the steel intercooler support brace.

Here I have moved the support brace to the top of the intercooler rubber mount (usually the brace is below), done other clearancing, added a 6mm* shim at the manifold end and enlarged the bolt-holes in the brace.

[*EDIT - turns out I needed 16mm worth of shimming to match the 15-16mm rise when you move from the bottom to the top of the rubber mount. With only 6mm worth of shim the bracket was pushing the intercooler down, which was counter-productive and would probably have caused premature failure.]

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Significant neatening-up of this brace situation will follow, but it holds for now.

I've only gone for one drive with the cold-side temperature monitoring in place. It works. I'm keen to get the hot-side mounted and see what happens to temps when sustained boost is applied.

[Project not complete at time of posting - more to follow]
Last edited by Yowie on Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:56 am

Nice glands!
For hard mounting do they require a soft gasket? Eg rtv or paper etc?

If the car is ever in vic I can straighten all those bent fins to perfection, using my recently acquired finning pliers, ocd approved.

Or just post your dead coolers to me and I’ll do the end tank recrimp and the fin straightening for you.

So milling down the end tank webs to fit the gland topside: too difficult/compromising strength?
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Re: Member Profile - Yowie's SH Forester XT

Postby Yowie » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:05 am

Cheers for reading.

For hard mounting do they require a soft gasket? Eg rtv or paper etc?


The instructions say to use the O-ring on the inside surface for hard mounting (but none for silicone mounting). I've used double o-rings on the inside and outside. For final assembly I'll probably use thread sealant or blue loctite on the internal and external threads but not drown the rest in goo. For the moment the fittings are off and on an awful lot, so the miniscule leakage past threads is acceptable.


If the car is ever in vic I can straighten all those bent fins to perfection, using my recently acquired finning pliers, ocd approved.

Or just post your dead coolers to me and I’ll do the end tank recrimp and the fin straightening for you.


My dead tank now has the end tank removed and a 16mm hole in it. Theoretically repairable if you're confident with the recrimp and could put the same fitting or an M16 bolt/washers and a lot of goo where the hole is. Hardly an obsessive-compulsive's choice of intercooler however :P

I have straightened fins before (nearly lost my mind doing it) and have some Repco comb for that purpose now. For the moment it's just too low on the priority list and not as bad in real life as some photos indicate.


So milling down the end tank webs to fit the gland topside: too difficult/compromising strength?


Interesting question. I'm looking at the detached cold-side end-tank as I make these comments:

(a) Theoretically possible. The end-tank plastic is surprisingly thick (about 5mm where I drilled). Plus OEM intercoolers are cheap and available from wreckers and a rupture is non-catastrophic (boost lost, mixture goes rich, no harm done).

(b) from looking at it - with a milling machine* and a PITA setup the exterior ribs could be machined flat adjacent to the BoV because the critical inside surface looks quite flat. Of course your sensor would foul on the OEM BoV air-return hose, causing a "vent to atmosphere" setup to be necessary. Sensor clearance to the OEM engine cover should be ok to there, but the end-user should confirm directly.

(*come to think of it, even a die grinder and/or other tools (eg a large forstner bit?) may be sufficient to get the exterior "flat enough", noting that exterior flatness is non-critical and external O-rings allow a bit of irregularity.)

[I'm about to have adventures with clearance between the sensor and the underside of the OEM engine cover for the hot side, so watch this space.]

(d) If you have access to a milling machine and compromising the stock BoV is on the cards, consider also what could be done with a thick alloy BoV base-plate (or adding a metal spacer). Theoretically a 1/8 NPT hole could be drilled next to the BoV, the end-tank internal plastic drilled so that the sensor tip reaches the main airstream, etc. Would take a compact BoV and some good planning, but it's another possibility. Alternatively a small aftermarket BoV could be remote-mounted for more clearance. User's choice as to whether that is an inelegant solution.

(e) The elephant in the room is of course getting an alloy intercooler and having 1/8NPT bosses welded to it. I wanted to check out how good the stock intercooler is first before I have such adventures.
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