Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby JB25 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:02 pm

Shaheenis wrote:Jared those rear bushes sound like a biatch. I am not sure I mentioned it but when Fulcrum did mine one of the rear bushes (they called it 'Toe Arm') had siezed to the arm and they couldn't press it out with the 10 tonne press. In the end they squished the bush holder out of round and had to cut the old bush out and repair the arm so it would receive and hold the bush properly. The labour was bloody dear but I am glad I didn't attempt it myself without another daily.


Yeah I did see a mention of that. The Toe arms are the lower rears that you can see when standing behind the car.

I did have some trouble getting the inner ones out too as the outer shells on the originals were so thin that they could actually stretch if what you were pressing them with was even slightly too small. Took me a good hour to get them out, but it was nothing compared to getting the upper arms back together. The bushes for the outside of the lower arms are actually part of the knuckle assembly, these were relatively easy, though I couldn't use the press. Due to space restrictions with the knuckle, I had to use the threaded rods with nuts instead in my bush removal kit and a socket from my half inch socket set as the bush removal cups don't go small enough, which was also part of the issue removing the inner bushes.
On a side note, I'm surprised a bunch of pros only had a 10 ton press, the one I just bought was only $450 was 20 ton & it's the premium type with the large ram & a pressure gauge. The most I saw pressing out all of my Bushes was about 7 tonnes.
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby JB25 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:50 am

Well it's finally all done. Major job but oh what a difference!

You feel so much more connected to the road with the poly bushes. I no longer feel like I don't know what the car is going to do, though I did notice some lateral movement a couple times on rough roads I blame the excessive stiffness of the stock Bilstein setup making the car bounce and skip the surface too much.

The car still feels quite understeery in nature, though I haven't pushed it enough to find out what would happen for sure. I am hoping my impending delivery of whiteline swaybars will help fix this.

Overall vs paying someone to do this job if you include the cost of the press, paint and bush removal kit, I spent about $1300. However I did already have the bush removal kit so it was more like $1100 and next time will cost me a lot less. So a lot of hard work but imo it was worth it especially since I could take my time to make all the arms look nice.

One other note. The kit I was supplied had an old type bush kit for the Front LCA bushes on the rear of the arms. This didn't come with any washers to put above the bush. My advise on this would be not to accept this kit as the bushes will not be properly compressed in place meaning excessive suspension movement. The reason for this is the crush tube will compress on the step of the shank, but the bush is too large and butts up against the underside of the chassis instead.
I ended up getting my supplier to get the correct washers and I am glad I did.

Also on my car the main bushes that were worn out were the same Front lower LCA bushes and also the inner rear toe arm bushes, which ironically Superpro don't supply. I also noted some wear on the rear lower control arms, but they were in good enough condition to use for probably another 50,000km or so. My car has done 126,000kms just for reference.
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby Shaheenis » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:14 pm

Jared good info and good to hear it is done!

I am envious you have earned a quality press out of funds that would have otherwise gone to labour. It is one of my favourite things to do starting a project and buying a quality tool with the money I save on labour and still coming out in front.

I personally didn't like the front swaybar. I fitted a whiteline and ended up selling it but see what you think. In a wagon the rear swaybar upgrade makes a noticeable difference in reducing roll, especially on stiff setting.

Your point on the LCA bush washers is interesting one. Someone on the forums suggested that installing a washer may enhance anti-lift and because I noticed a picture of a washer/shim on the website I queried this with Fulcrum. They confidently said no that is incorrect, yours does not use the washer/shim. Apparently Superpro have consolidated their kits to cover numerous models so the shim is included for some applications but not the Liberty so they don't fit it. I would like to see the specs on your wheel alignment to compare, especially on the caster. The steering on mine feels better, definately more oversteer but waiting to test on some twisty roads without the 2yr old in the back.
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby JB25 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:12 pm

Hey Shaheenis,

Yeah it is always good to get more toys. If I thought I wouldn't use it again it would have been a bit hard to justify, but I have at least 1 more car to do some time in the near future.

The wheel alignment in regards to Castor was pretty normal at 5.41 and 5.32 degrees with the normal range being between 5 and 6.3 . Personally I find it more than sufficient for a daily. What the figures don't show is how much more you feel the irregularities in the road because of how firm the bushes are. It's more than enough castor for a daily and actually causes a fair bit more steering kick back on occasion. This appears to be because they are no longer relieved bushes. Still I'd rather have a bit of kickback than suffer the mush that was the stock bushes.

I actually went to install the front whiteline bar last week only to find one of the included mounting bushes was the wrong size. Eagerly awaiting a replacement part that is on it's way.
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby TFish » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:40 pm

I know this is bringing back an old post but I'm trying to buy all the Whiteline parts available from ebay sellers for my 2007 Liberty GT BL9. I want to price them up and then ask the shop to compare the prices they can get. It looks like Whiteline ebay is cheaper than superpro or nothalane parts.

I'm going through the whiteline page here - https://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4. ... 3-8%2F2009

I may or may not get a sway bar kit but I'm mainly focused on replacing groups of bushes and parts logically over a few different mechanic bookings/jobs (easier on the wallet), eg. one job involving the front control arms being overhauled then one for the rear bushes, etc. The car is not lowered so I'm not looking at anti-lift stuff.

Questions:
1) As I head down the list, I get to KLC139 and KLC 32 (listed as Front Sway Bar Link) and I don't understand if I need both? I should just get KLC139?

2) This is my daily so I don't think there is a benefit for KTA124 (Control Arm - Lower front and ream arm) for me?

3) I want to do the steering rack bushings KSR207 as well, should that be grouped with the front control arms? Is it just front and rear work that I could split it into?

4) Parts from W63393 to W63397 are confusing, do I need all 5 parts to do a complete replacement? Some of them look like kits.

5) Do I need KDT906 or KDT927 or both (Differential - mount in cradle bushing)?

6) Should have 20mm sway bars if they are OEM concerning W0406-20G?

7) Is it better to buy a new rear trailing arm than replace the bushing W63398?

Thanks for looking and I appreciate any help!
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby bigBADbenny » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:01 pm

Iirc there’s 2 types of front swaybar link, one is super low maintenance with a solid bushing , the other has oem type ends.

If replacing any arms, go for jdm alloy arms for less mass.
That’s front lca’s, rear trailing, and rear upper.
They take the same bushes as the pressed steel or cast iron adm types.

As I’ve said previously, the main bushings to target with aftermarket upgrades are the relieved ones eg with voids in them, and those that are cracked worn or leaking, or where you want to add adjustment, if required...

So thats: rear front lca (received/add caster), forward rear trailing arm (relieved), outer rear upper arm (add camber), diff bushes (releived or silicone filled), rear arms w oem toe lock (full adjustability for extreme fitment).

So unless everything else is cracked or rooted out, think twice before you drop the coin.
You’ll be wasting money and or introducing unnecessary nvh to no real end for a daily driver imho.
This isn’t uncharted territory, Owen aka bspec did the lot on his car to no particular ill effect, however he was chasing sun 1.40 laps at Winton and 4 wheel drifting Kinglake as he liked.
Plus everything was installed at his work and at trade pricing, so why not really?

I mean go right ahead if you have to... but... you should really invest in rigid collars too.
That’s real snake oil... I must have it! I will! I even know where to get an almost reasonable deal on em :P

Same for swaybars, swaybar links (unless busted).
That’s either a lame bandaid for crap shocks, or an actual handling tuning device for a track car.

What you do need are rear swaybar reinforcement plates eg like the avo items.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14113#p190485

I’m certainly not saying don’t do it, just get your priorities straight.
I’ll find out soon enough, 270k car, doing the whole rear end too, but anything that’s sound will stay put.
That’s probably going to be the inner rear upper lol. :P
Ditto for the rear lateral arm bushes, I don’t recall ever seeing a stock item in bad condition.

1: either
2: not req
3: snake oil/racecar/just because, yes do it with the lca’s if you must or with a front swaybar again if you must.
But its more related to fsb than lca, eg the lca’s can be removed without touching the steering reinforcement iirc.
4: paste the link already :P
Yep all of those if yours are rooted. Get kca399 instead of the previous item if you need rear caster adjustability.
5: both usually, the silicone one leaks and the relieved ones may crap out.
https://www.google.com.au/search?biw=32 ... _XPGWZgSRY
6: google it or measure bar with verniers.
7: yes if its jdm alloy arms, upgrade the front bushing too.
8:
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby TFish » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:02 am

Thanks Benny,

Looks like you finally got through to me haha! I started looking into a lot of the parts and I'm not at all convinced I need em.

I'll just start with the FCA 2x bushes and get them to take a good look at the steering rack bushes and order them for the job if needed on the day (stock, aftermarket, whatever ones). I'll book in a second job for the rear in a few months. Also have to get done the timing belt kit, rocker covers and possibly main seals behind the timing cover (can't tell if the oil leak is coming only from the rocker covers until the timing cover comes off).

Were you being legit about definitely needing the rear sway bar plates?

Thanks again for sending your knowledge :)
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby bigBADbenny » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:46 am

Ha, what a rant hey? :P
The rsb reinforcements are almost mandatory with an upgrade rsb, and insurance if you drive hard on stock sways.
Regarding bushes, inspect first then prioritise :) has
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby TFish » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:11 pm

Alright, got the 4x FCA bushes, sway bar link ends and sway bar D mounts changed out for $165 labour today. Might have been a bit cheaper with the 4 new tyres going on (which already included fitting and alignment).

Can recommend Supertune Maribyrnong!
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Re: Bushing Refresh on Gen 4 GT Wagon

Postby bigBADbenny » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:07 pm

That’s a result! Mines all on hold whilst I’m working in WA, tfn. But at least I’ll be able to afford completing the job :P
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