club.liberty.asn.au

I’m looking for a little advice on tuning my new weapon: - an MY07 Liberty GT Spec.B

I phoned MRT today and they informed me of the XA and XB kits that contain the following:

XA - ECU Flash ($2000) - 15kw at the wheels
XB - ECH Flash, Cold Air Intake (CAI) and Exhaust ($5150) - 25kw at the wheels.

These prices seem a little expensive particularly when I was informed that the ECU upgrade is just a flash of the stock ECU and no dyno time. Rights for the software was the excuse I was given and well maybe so. Development time is required for maps but nothing beats a custom tune. Comparing prices I can get a HKS exhaust for half the price.

My question is in regards to flashing the ECU. I have read many posts with people using ECUTEK and HALTEK ECU's and I wonder is this still the go with the MY07+ GT's or if a reflash is ok. Can a reflash be done with a custom map (tune)?

I found some info on a US site about the ‘AccessPORT by Cobb Tuning’ – “a handheld programmer that allows you to unlock your vehicle's hidden potential by reprogramming the stock Engine Control Unit (ECU). Performance tuning data is uploaded to the ECU via the OBD-2 diagnostic port in a matter of minutes, and
requires no cutting, wiring, or other such modifications”

Has anyone had any experience with one of these or similar? Would you recommend ECUTEK or HALTEK or UNICHIP or a reflash of the stock ECU? I plan to do all mods then a custom tune so I won’t be needing to play with the ECU afterwards – well unless the dealer flashes it back somehow – a worry with the AccessPORT – dunno.

My current line of thinking with other mild mods is:
HKS Exhaust
Cobb Legacy GT Catted or Invidia Legacy GT Catted down pipe
APS or DC Sports up pipe
Perrin Short Ram Intake or Cobb SF Intake
Top Mount Intercooler (not sure)

Your thoughts on my madness would me most appreciated. If you have experience with a good tuner / workshop I would also really like to know.

Update Note: Forgot to mention Open Source ECU Software - IMO its the only way to go! See my follow up post.

LOL. This topic has been explored quite thoroughly, with people having their own opinions and getting various results. Your best bet is to do a search on the forum (which it looks like you've done already), as there have been many people that have come and gone who have done various tunes ranging from custom EcuTek, Haltech Interceptor, and Verso. Options for the MY07+ are limited.

And yes, there is a great divide over MRT due to their scare tactics and high prices. At the end of the day it's your money and you can do what you want with it. But there are better and cheaper alternatives. It also depends on who you trust with your car. Good luck! I'm sure alot of people will chime in with their results and feedback.

Btw, be cautious with the DP you're planning. GTSPECB STI mentioned there are issues trying to use components like the DP made for the North American Legacy on a opposite side drive Australian Liberty.

Hi Arith, thanks for the info on the US Spec Legacy, its something I had not considered. I found a lot more hits on searches with 'Legacy' as apposed to 'Liberty'. Thanks again!

hey tehx ,

my 2 cents would be that ECUTEK is the easiest , if not the best way to go for a flash tune. Alot of American waffle gets brought up on forums and you WILL find virtually nobody in OZ will want to know you in regards to install or tune. This is just my own experience though , others may have had success ?

As an alternative to MRT , Paul Fisher @ Pulse Racing, Menai has quite a good reputation and years of experience tuning Subaru`s and was actually MRTs head tuner just a few years back. Paul gave a set quote of $1100 for a custom tune , which can yield 30-40kwaw on GTB STi liberty - WITHOUT ANY MODS . stack that against your quote from MRTs XB kit and you are a mile infront. Also from experience , Paul has extremely good shop labour rates - I had a catless uppipe, TMIC ,SILICON bits, Fuel pump ,Brakes gauges /senders and other parts fitted at the same time as a tune and still the total cost was only a touch over $2K , so my advice would be to stockpile your desired MOD list and have Paul fit and tune to suit , you will get a pleasant surprise at the power this magician can unleash !
Personally I`ll be happy to retain the stock (quiet) setup and gain a few extra ponies, since the last car got me over the mod bug really , with a decent 185kwaw and plenty of noise to boot .

give him a ring and determine his knowledge and worth for yourself :
mobile no. 0438115068. He is a busy man though so dont be put off if he doesnt answer the phone straight up , hes worth chasing IMO !

i run Ecutek on both my Subarus..

you need a decent tuner, regardless of the tuning product, thats the most important..

the Subaru ECU is a fantastic piece of computer technology. expanding its capabilities safely is the best method.

stay away from unichip.

also remember you get warranty cover with Ecutek..

As has been mentioned in the past, Subaru may or may not cover problems with the engine under warranty if you have had someone do an ECUTEK tune on it.

It IS detectable (locks out any other method of flashing a map - all Subaru has to do is attempt to upload the standard map and when they get locked out they know something has been tampered with). And from that point it is up to their discretion as to whether they cover anything.

If you are out of warranty, all of the above means diddly squat - regardless of how you get it tuned, as long as the tuner does a good job and knows what they are doing you'll be fine

tehx wrote:
I found some info on a US site about the ‘AccessPORT by Cobb Tuning’ – “a handheld programmer that allows you to unlock your vehicle's hidden potential by reprogramming the stock Engine Control Unit (ECU). Performance tuning data is uploaded to the ECU via the OBD-2 diagnostic port in a matter of minutes, and
requires no cutting, wiring, or other such modifications”

Has anyone had any experience with one of these or similar? Would you recommend ECUTEK or HALTEK or UNICHIP or a reflash of the stock ECU? I plan to do all mods then a custom tune so I won’t be needing to play with the ECU afterwards – well unless the dealer flashes it back somehow – a worry with the AccessPORT – dunno.

My current line of thinking with other mild mods is:
HKS Exhaust
Cobb Legacy GT Catted or Invidia Legacy GT Catted down pipe
APS or DC Sports up pipe
Perrin Short Ram Intake or Cobb SF Intake
Top Mount Intercooler (not sure)

Your thoughts on my madness would me most appreciated. If you have experience with a good tuner / workshop I would also really like to know.

Sounds like you have doing some serious research in regards to tuning and mechanical mods for your Liberty. I am a Yank who has lived in Australia for some time but also spent 2002-2004 in California working. I owned a WRX STI there and used Cobb almost exclusively for mods and tuning. Accessport is great but it does NOT support Australian Subaru's ecu. The brands you name are all quality but they wont suit your car (left hand drive vs right hand drive). With regards to tuning I suggest you find yourself a good experienced Subaru tuner first and ask them what tuning tool they use..ie Ecutek, Open source (Verso in my case) or Haltech or other piggy back. I would also suggest you have a look at the threads here on mods because what you are after has been done by others already. I suggest you dont get fooled by companies who tell you I will get 20, 30, 40 kw more with tune. Ask them questions such as what sort of air fuel ratio numbers they use to get their "safe" tune. What boost level are they running. What sort of torque (Nm) improvement will I get and when will boost come on and stay on for how long in the rev band. I would not bother with replacing the up pipe either as you wont gain stuff all while still running stock turbo.

Good luck and happy reading and hunting.

http://www.chiptorque.com.au/ this is the oz version of access port

ultrablue wrote:http://www.chiptorque.com.au/ this is the oz version of access port

not quite, note they dont offer it for can bus ecu's ie..no good for MY07 onwards. Also no custom map tuning just generic maps supplied by chiptorque.

Thanks pplz, for sharing your wisdom, I have certainly come to the right place!

I had a chat with Paul Fisher @ Pulse Racing today. He had a great deal of time to explain his experience with tuning Subi’s and the pros / cons of particular mods. He seems a real enthusiast, knowledgeable, realistic about what to do and what returns value for money as far as mods go. It’s refreshing and a delight to speak with such people. Thanks STiLADYLIBERTY!

From our conversation he explained that an ECU tune is probably the best value for money as there is good power gains to be made from this alone. Following that, an exhaust, air intake and down pipe. In that order, these offer the best returns for money spent.

His price was a good $1200 cheaper than MRT’s XB kit and also includes a custom tune and the down pipe.

I would be interested to hear from anyone else who has used this guy – your experience is welcomed as I make the decision to hand over the beast into his skilful care. Interestingly I read a post on the MRT forums and that person was very happy with Paul’s work at Pulse Racing.

Smythie & Spec B Wagon: you have a very valid point – I have more than a year of manufactures warranty on the car and it’s certainly a concern. After reading your post I did a little more research and phoned Paul back to ask a few more Q’s. He informs the version of ECUTEK he has can return the car to stock, which would be undetectable to the workshop. He also explained he is very mindful when tuning to be sure that the parameters set would not make the beast an endangered species. A lot of the N. American posts also mention that with ECUTEK you can’t read the OBD2 codes anymore – it was an old post and there was mention that this would be changed in future releases of ECUTEK.

When I was researching this I found some info on open source tuning using RomRaider in conjunction with EcuFlash. There is a wealth of information on the forums including user maps and experiences. Being a complete tuning noob I’m not so keen to play flash the car like I do my HTC phone – just yet anyway I quizzed Paul on the use of open source software and he was rather informative about his experience with it.. He informs that some models of car tune better with different software and it was also one of the tools in his ECU flashing toolbox. I think knowing I can return the ECU to factory with ECUTEK and the experience of others ECUTEK will be the choice.

Thanks ultrablue, this looks like a neat solution, Unplug and you’re back to factory. From the website it looks like only the 2.0L Liberty is supported although I see 2.5L WRX and Forrester.

I have booked the Liberty into Paul’s skilful hands for minor mod surgery. ECU, exhaust, down pipe & intake. I’ll let you know how things work out in a few weeks yea!

GTSPECB STI wrote:I suggest you dont get fooled by companies who tell you I will get 20, 30, 40 kw more with tune. Ask them questions such as what sort of air fuel ratio numbers they use to get their "safe" tune. What boost level are they running. What sort of torque (Nm) improvement will I get and when will boost come on and stay on for how long in the rev band. I would not bother with replacing the up pipe either as you wont gain stuff all while still running stock turbo.

To clarify , the catless Up pipe I mentioned was replaced on an MY04 XT forester with a VF30 turbo, and yes there is quite a noticeable gain to be made on that model , but was only using this as a reference for labour costs - not performance Anyway , I believe the liberty already has an OEM catless U.P and also come with the larger IHI VF46 turbo than the Forester or WRX TD04 Mitsubishi made turbo .
Only a foolish man would spend money on a piggyback ecu on a vehicle that has such a capable oem ecu. A full replacement ecu such as Microtech being the exception for serious and extreme modifications.

Anyway , I`ll be looking forward to see the results Pulse can bring your new weapon tehx ! keep us posted

PS check Forester forums like ozfoz.com or GTRydaz.com for more feedback on Pulse tuning and service , I havent heard of a dissatisfied customer yet.

STiLADYLIBERTY wrote:Only a fool would spend money on a piggyback ecu on a vehicle that has such a capable oem ecu.

A piggyback, although providing moderate gains, is good for those on a budget and it can be removed and sold when no longer needed. I'd say gains equivalent to a V-Tune from STi Docklands. But yeah, in the end you're better off going with something else if you want big gains.

A full replacement ecu such as Microtech being the exception for serious and extreme modifications.

Although a full external ECU unit provides exceptional gains, it's only really been fitted to cars like the EVO, WRX, etc. The MY07+ Liberty is an extremely picky car, especially with it's Si drive, and a lot of times will not be compatible. That's why you don't have many options for MY07+, nor do you hear of any success stories relating to a ECU upgrade for them either.

Motec for serious modding fun!

Just wanted to ask tehx if these mods had been done at Pulse Racing yet.

Cheers.

I got 12 kw ATW for $250 with my V-Tune. It's a good start.