Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Posts specific to the 2.5 litre turbo engine

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:44 pm

Tuning audm postfl 2.5i or any turbo or h6 is a thing.

So monitoring tgv position should be possible with eg Romraider etc.
And thus a delete should also be possible.

Keeping the tgv’s as is, but deleting it all in the tune, tgvs open, would be considered a basic blind test of your theory.
That is if the issue persisted, you’d inspect tgv position physically to confirm the issue, presumably a stuck or lazy tgv.

I’m not sure if such an important to emissions motor could fail without throwing a cel/DTC tho.

ilib11 wrote:bigBADbenny, thank you for keeping an eye on this topic!

Re compression : Service Manual says - 142-171 psi, difference is 7 psi or less. My figures are slightly off these but the engine was not hot at the time of measurement.
so I got compression slightly below normal and the difference twice more than advised by the manual. Giving the engine is not new (160K), would these measured figures cause any concern from the practical point of view? What would real experience say? Like if I see one cylinder has a compression twice less then others that would definitely say there is a problem, would a slightly degraded compression be a concern? (note - engine has practically no oil consumption and does not require adding oil between changes)

Re vacuum: as per specs ( at least 19.7 in Hg on idle AC Off)
I noticed none of these conditions which also listed in the service manual:
1. Needle is steady but lower than standard value. This tendency becomes more evident as engine temperature rises +> Leakage around intake manifold gasket, or disconnected or damaged vacuum hose
2. Needle intermittently drops to position lower than standard value. => Leakage around cylinder
3. Needle drops suddenly and intermittently from standard value. => Sticky valve
4. When engine speed is gradually increased, needle begins to vibrate rapidly at certain speed, and then vibration increases as engine speed increases. => Weak or broken valve springs
5. Needle vibrates above and below standard value in narrow range. => Defective ignition system


Re gaskets - degradation of the composite gasket material: I got new sets, they either silicon ( TGV "binoculars" - Intake manifold ) or sort of a thin "cardboard material" ( cylinder head- TGV "binoculars" ), I thing you are talking about the "cardboard" ones. I tried to establish a leak there by using a lot of carb cleaner and /or butane gas - no leak found. SubiEvolution looked there too and did not find anything. So I think the only I can do next is to disassemble everything to get to these gaskets and replace them.

Re TGV: I have read people get these TGV removed and get simpler system and extra power, at least for previous years Subarus. I noticed the design is slightly different from the previous years - there is no separate TGV position sensor, looks like it is combined with the actuator now. Is that possible to remove TGVs for this 2010 model? Is that a common/recommended mod? ( I am thinking that if I need to disassemble the intake to check/fix gaskets, it may be good to remove these TGVs at the same time and save some effort).

Re TGV and idle: https://www.romraider.com/forum/topic360.html says that TGV could be related to idle:

Base Timing Idle (In-Gear) - This is the base timing in idle mode when the transmission is not in neutral. Although the map switching between A and B is not entirely understood, it appears to be related to the TGVs.
Base Timing Idle (Neutral) - This is the base timing in idle mode when the transmission is in neutral. Although the map switching between A and B is not entirely understood, it appears to be related to the TGVs.

As the original problem relates to idle , and especially is worse in gear ( a sort of load), I could thing this TGV lead is worth investigating.


P.S. Sorry for all these questions if there are too many of them.. I have to admit I am at the edge of my capabilities - I have no workshop so unable to lift a car, extract the engine from it etc. by myself. And the car has been in a reputable service with no obvious leaks/faults found. I simply would like to see a way forward from where I am now.

Kind regards,
ilib11
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:06 am


P.S. Sorry for all these questions if there are too many of them.. I have to admit I am at the edge of my capabilities - I have no workshop so unable to lift a car, extract the engine from it etc. by myself. And the car has been in a reputable service with no obvious leaks/faults found. I simply would like to see a way forward from where I am now.



No obvious leaks: that’s an assumption.

Have you put a bung in the S pipe post maf and blown into the bov ref hose yet?

Got anyone local that can log the car using Btssm or Romraider?

I’m In Collingwood lol.
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby ilib11 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:19 am

No, I have not done that myself - first need to buy or make a tool to connect to the post-maf, and unsure I can reach the bov from the hood. Once I got a tool, I think I shall be able to blow post-maf.
ilib11
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: Brisbane
Car: 2010 Liberty GT

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby ilib11 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:20 am

P.S. I can do romraider logs myself with no problem. And if I can reach Collingwood, you would have seen that car in person already :)
ilib11
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: Brisbane
Car: 2010 Liberty GT

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:17 pm

Ok great! Indeed I reviewed your posts for context and I’ll peep the logs :good:
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby ilib11 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:10 pm

FYI - today's Learning view:
Learning View 2021-08-21.JPG
Learning View 2021-08-21.JPG (91.84 KiB) Viewed 834 times


Also I looked for TGV positions - not sure if my romraider reads them correctly, but the values do not change from a cold start to warm up:
TGV.JPG
TGV.JPG (210.79 KiB) Viewed 834 times
ilib11
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: Brisbane
Car: 2010 Liberty GT

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:49 pm

I’ll have to break out my pc and tactrix and lookup what mine do on startup :)
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:37 pm

Also avcs is not an issue on idle unless a cam gear is stuck in the advanced position.
This is a fault you’d easily spot in logging and it would cause a cel.

If you’re still experiencing the shudder, could the power steering be an issue?
Eg a blocked fluid strainer in the pump or reservoir?

Are all the wires to the a/c pump connected? I’m not sure how to test that (FSM) but I reckon it’s linked to the ecu for idle compensation…
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:51 pm

Would be interesting to see TGV in this log, but cold to warm at idle...

So in this kind of graph, we're trying to spot outlying info.

ilib11 graph 2.png
ilib11 graph 2.png (84.64 KiB) Viewed 805 times
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:32 pm

Here's the gas test, it looks like the engine responsed to something towards the end of the log:

ilib11 gas test graph zoom.png
ilib11 gas test graph zoom.png (86.82 KiB) Viewed 805 times
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:37 pm

OK the driving log!
We see here your avcs is really good, no real need to log his parameter, the less parameter the more log resolution.

ilib11 driving graph avcs zoom.png
ilib11 driving graph avcs zoom.png (112.49 KiB) Viewed 805 times
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:42 pm

Roughness, a single instance, cylinder 2.

Off load, off boost...

Is it a concern? I think not. Worth looking it up tho for context...

ilib11 driving graph roughness zoom.png
ilib11 driving graph roughness zoom.png (75.9 KiB) Viewed 803 times
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:51 pm

Ok so in the context of IAM it makes more sense. The log starts with 0.6 and actually improves, with a slight drop at the misfire...

ilib11 driving graph IAM.png
ilib11 driving graph IAM.png (66.15 KiB) Viewed 803 times
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:00 pm

If we look at FBKC, it’s quite active, adding and pulling ignition timing.

You haven’t logged FKC or raw knock count. Please do.

Vvt angles is fine, don’t bother with the volts & duty cycle till diagnosing issues seen in vvt.

I’ll peep exhaust vvt: forgot this lol.

To me a car that doesn’t like to hang around IAM 1.00, is a car that needs thorough health checking to get to the issue.

But beware outliers, my car dropped iam due to the head unit & nav cutting out, testing the car on very rough roads.

So that’s some loom or ground issue, car is fine on freeway and city, iam drops on really bad roads, sits at 0.9 for 2 weeks then goes back to 1.00.
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

Re: Rough Idle & Engine Shaking under load like AC

Postby bigBADbenny » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:57 pm

Roughness scatter graph...

Screen Shot 2021-08-25 at 18.58.27.jpg
Screen Shot 2021-08-25 at 18.58.27.jpg (251.66 KiB) Viewed 800 times
User avatar
bigBADbenny
 
Posts: 10421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: Collingwood, Melbourne
Car: MY07 GT-B 6MT OBP Wagon
Real name: Ben Richards
Profile URL: http://tinyurl.com/agvbzop

PreviousNext

Return to 2.5T engine specific

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests