VF46 to Blouch TD05 18G - what to expect

[alexeiwoody]

Finally put the car on the dyno since fitting the TD05 18g. Below is a dyno sheet.

No surprises, the VF46 came on sooner, and starts to fizz out towards the top. However, to my surprise the VF46 produces more power (about 10kw) and more torque (about 40nm) all the way to about 5000rpm.

Despite this, the TD05 18g feels stronger... and did produce an extra 10kw at the top end, however given that I've now lost a fair bit of torque and low-end power, I'm not sure it has been worth the upgrade.

Having said that though - I am running less boost that before (for safety), so perhaps increasing the boost would bring back some of that mid-range power...

dyno-td05-18g-blue_vs_vf46-red.jpg

I'm sure others will agree - that's not right. No way does a vf 46 hold torque better than an 18G.

If the car 'feels' stronger on the blouch, that's because you've got more torque. Don't get confused between spool and acceleration. Just because the 18G spools slower, doesn't mean it's not making more power/torque the entire time.

Who did this tune? It looks like the AVCS may not have been re-tuned for a bigger turbo, or something similar... that graph is just way off.

[jslayz]

Running less boost = less power.....

[cynner]

I should have added - Matt (kido) tuned it on the dyno. He did say he could tweak it to bring power on earlier - at the time I opted to leave it, going for better fuel economy for daily driving. Maybe we should have tweaked it a bit more though. It was only afterwards that I got the dyno printout for closer inspection.

The dyno was showing slightly less boost than the ECU too. It was also a very cold day... last time the car was on the dyno with the vf46 it was a warm day. This could make a difference...

[dr20t]

Same dyno?

As others have said if same dyno and showing less power then something isnt right

Spool might suffer slightly (and when I say spool here I'm talking rpm at which full boost is achieved), but should make same power until full boost with the right setup

Need to see logs to tell you.

[cynner]

Yeah same dyno. Matt said that as the dyno cell room temperature was 3 degrees, the ECU lowers the boost target (safety mechanism) - so it was running less boost, which would skew the power figure...

[jslayz]

what was previous temp

[cynner]

It was a warm day from memory - I'd say maybe 20 degrees...

[alexeiwoody]

Yeah same dyno. Matt said that as the dyno cell room temperature was 3 degrees, the ECU lowers the boost target (safety mechanism) - so it was running less boost, which would skew the power figure...

But the boost curve on the dyno is a measure of actual boost - which looks to be pretty much the same, within 1 psi. 18G would still make more power and torque even 2 psi lower compared to the vf46.

And considering the lower temps - that would actually work in your favour in terms of cold air intake and fuel temps.

IMO those two dyno readings are not compatible, something's way off.

#carproblems...

[dr20t]

Yeah same dyno. Matt said that as the dyno cell room temperature was 3 degrees, the ECU lowers the boost target (safety mechanism) - so it was running less boost, which would skew the power figure...

Huh?

[jslayz]

The colder it is the crazier mine pulls.........no exception. If such a safety routine runs in stock form its to protect over boosting and head gaskets right?

[dr20t]

Have a look at target boost compensation tables then tell me if above makes sense

[cynner]

Haven't looked at the tables yet... but a BtSsm knock event from this morning I think suggests something is not quite right. I wonder if it pulling -1.41 degrees of timing would result in it only making 7.2psi when the target was 16.8... :/

KNOCK DETECTED at 2015-06-12 09:16:34 am
FKC (deg): -1.41
FLKC (deg): 0.00
AFR: 12.7
Boost (psi): 7.20
Boost Target (psi): 16.8
Coolant (degC): 87
Fuel correct (%): -0.0
Fuel learn (%): 0.00
Fuel pump DC (%): 100.0
IAM: 1.000
Injector DC (%): 33.9
Injector PW (ms): 12.8
Knocks: 17
Load (g/rev): 1.96
MAF (g/s): 104
Misfire cyl 1: 0
Misfire cyl 2: 0
Misfire cyl 3: 0
Misfire cyl 4: 0
RPM: 3182
Speed (kmh): 44.0
Throttle plate (%): 100.0
Timing (deg): 13.0
Turbo WGDC (%): 33.7
VVT int L (deg): 19
VVT int R (deg): 21

[west_minist]

Not all 18G's are the same. But it is expects to have a few 100's rpm lost, depending on the turbo and the turbine size used.

If you want a quick rush and fast spool and care less for the topend, use a small turbine.

You could asked your tuner if he played around with the AVCS and fuel to help with spool, providing the boost control setup allows for quicker spool.

[alexeiwoody]

Haven't looked at the tables yet... but a BtSsm knock event from this morning I think suggests something is not quite right. I wonder if it pulling -1.41 degrees of timing would result in it only making 7.2psi when the target was 16.8... :/

KNOCK DETECTED at 2015-06-12 09:16:34 am
FKC (deg): -1.41
FLKC (deg): 0.00
AFR: 12.7
Boost (psi): 7.20
Boost Target (psi): 16.8
Coolant (degC): 87
Fuel correct (%): -0.0
Fuel learn (%): 0.00
Fuel pump DC (%): 100.0
IAM: 1.000
Injector DC (%): 33.9
Injector PW (ms): 12.8
Knocks: 17
Load (g/rev): 1.96
MAF (g/s): 104
Misfire cyl 1: 0
Misfire cyl 2: 0
Misfire cyl 3: 0
Misfire cyl 4: 0
RPM: 3182
Speed (kmh): 44.0
Throttle plate (%): 100.0
Timing (deg): 13.0
Turbo WGDC (%): 33.7
VVT int L (deg): 19
VVT int R (deg): 21

If you look at your injector duty cycle (33%) and your wastegate duty cycle (33%) - you'll see you never hit full boost. Target boost is based of pedal angle - and we can se you went 100%, however actual boost takes a little while to build, especially if you WOTed the car from low rpm.

I'm guessing you didn't hold the throttle down long enough. If, however that's what a full 3rd gear pull at WOT looks like for you, it would be your tune.

[shav]

Kim - Need an update. How you going with your turbo? Happy, not happy? Had any further tune tweaks done on it since?