Boost Control

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Boost Control

Postby gradg » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:19 pm

Hey guys,

So I've read through about the two options for boost control solenoids.

What I'm wondering is this, the car I've got has had an Ecutek tune at what I'm presuming is stock boost. However, the exhaust, intake and top mount have been modified on this car and my experience with subaru motors is that when these are done, it tends to draw more boost than stock.

The VF46 I'm led to believe is an 8psi wastegate? correct me if i'm wrong.

What I'm wondering is what am I best do do here as far as boost control goes? I'm not very interested in putting in a 3port solenoid if it means I have to retune.

The car is an MY08 Liberty GT SpecB

Thoughts?

G
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Re: Boost Control

Postby Manaz » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:44 am

I believe wastegate pressure on the VF46 is 10psi. The ECUTEK tune should be managing boost for you - the turbo itself is capable of safely running up to 18psi without much hassle.

Exactly what do you want to achieve by controlling boost better than the stock boost control/ECUTEK tune?
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Re: Boost Control

Postby bigBADbenny » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:56 am

With all those mods I'd recommend getting rid of the ecutek tune, install a 3 port ebcs eg Cobb and getting a tune.
Matt/kido/ThrottleHappy would be a great candidate to help out with all 3.

I'm mostly stock with matts tune and isolation mounted pierburg 3port (they're noisy) and my boost is always within 1psi of the requested target: 9, 12 and 15.5 psi.
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Re: Boost Control

Postby shav » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:31 am

bigBADbenny wrote:With all those mods I'd recommend getting rid of the ecutek tune, install a 3 port ebcs eg Cobb and getting a tune.
Matt/kido/ThrottleHappy would be a great candidate to help out with all 3.

I'm mostly stock with matts tune and isolation mounted pierburg 3port (they're noisy) and my boost is always within 1psi of the requested target: 9, 12 and 15.5 psi.

^^^ THIS.

Get rid of the ecutek tune, and let Matt do his work if you are at all concerned. Do you know who originally tuned the car?
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Re: Boost Control

Postby coyote » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:45 am

As others have suggested, the boost control solenoid is the least of your concerns.

Good boost control can be achieved with either the factory 2 port, or a 3 port.

For serious cars, I'm now using these:

http://www.plex-tuning.com/products/pbc ... controller
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Re: Boost Control

Postby gradg » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:18 am

Manaz wrote:Exactly what do you want to achieve by controlling boost better than the stock boost control/ECUTEK tune?


I was unawares of how well the std ecu controlled it - the subaru motors i'm familiar with are the RS and V3 STI, the older style ones where solenoids allowed leak etc. I replaced my V3 one with a blitz ID3 and it held incredibly well.

I was mainly concerned about boost leaks leading to spikes. I found in previous cars, once boost control was set up, the boost felt a lot stronger and I was wondering if that's the case with these.

Thanks for the info and tips guys, I don't have the money to justify a new solenoid and tune at this stage so i'll be sticking with my zero interest in having a retune done for now. I was just interested in the reliability of the stock setup and if not, was there anything that could substitute without needing a retune.

The tune was done in Tasmania, I've got the printout from the workshop that did it, but I'm unsure at this stage.
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Re: Boost Control

Postby shav » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:23 pm

If you can get your hands on a open port tactrix and log some data, perhaps you could at least have a look at what the tune is currently doing to ensure its safe?
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Re: Boost Control

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:48 pm

gradg wrote:Hey guys,

So I've read through about the two options for boost control solenoids.

What I'm wondering is this, the car I've got has had an Ecutek tune at what I'm presuming is stock boost. However, the exhaust, intake and top mount have been modified on this car and my experience with subaru motors is that when these are done, it tends to draw more boost than stock.
The VF46 I'm led to believe is an 8psi wastegate? correct me if i'm wrong.
What I'm wondering is what am I best do do here as far as boost control goes? I'm not very interested in putting in a 3port solenoid if it means I have to retune.
The car is an MY08 Liberty GT SpecB
Thoughts?

G


How much boost are you running?

If Boost is on 8 to 10psi, I would say your in limp mode and the engine is protecting itself from rattling itself to death.
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Re: Boost Control

Postby gradg » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:06 pm

KiDo_Tuning wrote:
gradg wrote:Hey guys,

So I've read through about the two options for boost control solenoids.

What I'm wondering is this, the car I've got has had an Ecutek tune at what I'm presuming is stock boost. However, the exhaust, intake and top mount have been modified on this car and my experience with subaru motors is that when these are done, it tends to draw more boost than stock.
The VF46 I'm led to believe is an 8psi wastegate? correct me if i'm wrong.
What I'm wondering is what am I best do do here as far as boost control goes? I'm not very interested in putting in a 3port solenoid if it means I have to retune.
The car is an MY08 Liberty GT SpecB
Thoughts?

G


How much boost are you running?

If Boost is on 8 to 10psi, I would say your in limp mode and the engine is protecting itself from rattling itself to death.


I'm intrigued as to how you've come to that conclusion?
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Re: Boost Control

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:44 am

gradg wrote:
KiDo_Tuning wrote:
gradg wrote:Hey guys,

So I've read through about the two options for boost control solenoids.

What I'm wondering is this, the car I've got has had an Ecutek tune at what I'm presuming is stock boost. However, the exhaust, intake and top mount have been modified on this car and my experience with subaru motors is that when these are done, it tends to draw more boost than stock.
The VF46 I'm led to believe is an 8psi wastegate? correct me if i'm wrong.
What I'm wondering is what am I best do do here as far as boost control goes? I'm not very interested in putting in a 3port solenoid if it means I have to retune.
The car is an MY08 Liberty GT SpecB
Thoughts?

G


How much boost are you running?

If Boost is on 8 to 10psi, I would say your in limp mode and the engine is protecting itself from rattling itself to death.


I'm intrigued as to how you've come to that conclusion?


Software has a table called Boost Disable IAM. When the ECU pulls timing to protect the engine, it eventually pulls enough timing to disable boost

This is an example of a tune that had Boost Disabled
Learning View_SS_AZ1G101M_2012-02-28 20 50 26.jpg
Learning View_SS_AZ1G101M_2012-02-28 20 50 26.jpg (73.05 KiB) Viewed 4094 times


The IAM is below 0.350 so it disabled boost to protect the engine
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Re: Boost Control

Postby gradg » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:08 am

I understand what happens in limp mode bit im failing to see where you've drawn the conclusion that my engine is about to rattle itself to death and I'm in need of a tune. No where have I said there is any issue at all woth how the car is running.
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Re: Boost Control

Postby <GB> » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:22 pm

coyote wrote:As others have suggested, the boost control solenoid is the least of your concerns.

Good boost control can be achieved with either the factory 2 port, or a 3 port.

For serious cars, I'm now using these:

http://www.plex-tuning.com/products/pbc ... controller

why do you like these for more serious cars? do you think the stock ecu cant handle high powered cars ?
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Re: Boost Control

Postby bigBADbenny » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:13 pm

A quick look at the site suggests it features built-in afr and egt failsafes allowing tuning closer to the limit and with added safety/somewhat less headroom :)
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Re: Boost Control

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:00 pm

gradg wrote:I understand what happens in limp mode bit im failing to see where you've drawn the conclusion that my engine is about to rattle itself to death and I'm in need of a tune. No where have I said there is any issue at all woth how the car is running.


Get anyone to check LV and confirm.

Then contact forum member Wil and he can tell you about his workmate who had same issue 3 weeks after his tune... he is now saving up for an engine rebuild

Better yet use any dyno to diagnose the issue properly.

My conclusion is drawn from the fact I have seen over 20 doing the exact same scenario... dropping boost to wastegate pressure to protect the engine. Better yet, call MRT and explain the symptoms and see what they say :)
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Re: Boost Control

Postby gradg » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:14 pm

KiDo_Tuning wrote:
gradg wrote:I understand what happens in limp mode bit im failing to see where you've drawn the conclusion that my engine is about to rattle itself to death and I'm in need of a tune. No where have I said there is any issue at all woth how the car is running.


Get anyone to check LV and confirm.

Then contact forum member Wil and he can tell you about his workmate who had same issue 3 weeks after his tune... he is now saving up for an engine rebuild

Better yet use any dyno to diagnose the issue properly.

My conclusion is drawn from the fact I have seen over 20 doing the exact same scenario... dropping boost to wastegate pressure to protect the engine. Better yet, call MRT and explain the symptoms and see what they say :)


This is laughable. Youre speaking about an issue that iant present.

Again, there is absolutely no issue with the car, it was nerely a question about control and youve turned it into a fear mongering tune campaign.
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