MY07 GT Spec.B ECU Upgrade / Tune & light performance mo

[moggy]

Tan, is your Liberty a manual and do you have a centre pipe & muffler as well as a pod intake? Just curious about the 30kw difference between your tune and Trieu's with those 3 mods being the only difference.

According to an earlier post he's only had the P3 dump at this stage....

Bob.

[birch_security]

OK here you go, these are examples of the 'requested torque' tables located with in the Liberty Rom and for that matter all of the later models with SI drive. In this case its an 08 Liberty Spec B wagon . Look at the Sport and Sport Sharp modes and notice the 350 raw ECU value don't try and quantifiy this as anything just think of it as your engines peak torque output with the number representing as decreasing level of torque as they lower to the left. Now look at the Intelligent mode notice the maximum on the right hand cells, its down somewhat on the two 'Sports' modes. This effectively means you''l not be seeing the full amount of torque here with normal driving (this isn't actualy true truth be told.... hold the throttle to the floor and it will switch ). Also notice the amount of pedal travel in each of the three tables, you'll see that there is quite a bit of difference. This is what gives you your throttle feel if that makes sense. You can change this too btw I could swap thing round all over the place and really make it unpleasant. I think they are pretty good as they are, maybe you'd say customise one lets say 'Sport' to suit your usually driving style and leave the other two. I actually find 'Sport to be pretty close to be honest.

This torque limiting technique is not just a Subaru thing either. You should see some of the software we are getting for The Euro branded Cars its very common. I used to think that big capacity NA cars were all tuned to their limit but no, there are big gains for example in the VW R36 and Mercs where they use torque limiting to effectively clamp the car back so it doesn't 1) risk warranty claims relating to faulty transmissions or 2) make their higher end models look less inviting .




Hope I haven't bored anyone to death
Mark

Mark, what are your axes? And where does the data come from? Dont care about the numbers (they'll be normalised to something), but care ALOT about where you got the info. Do you actually have (Raw) signal names? Did you get the info over CAN? Through Diag-Port?
The colours are very pretty, but maybe you could put in a 4-dimensional graph to explain your choice of x-axis scaling... At least that got me lost... And dont really understand your axis naming. But the info does look interesting, hence we all want to know more!
C'mon, help us out a bit.

[BlackFlatSix05]

These are the Drive by Wire maps pulled from your ecu's rom file using the Romraider software and a Tactrix cable. This is just one of the many parameters you can alter and flash back onto your ecu. This is what Pulse Racing and other tuners are using rather than ECUREK and piggybacks. Go to www.romraider.com and read all about it.

[sundayDriver]

Tan, is your Liberty a manual and do you have a centre pipe & muffler as well as a pod intake? Just curious about the 30kw difference between your tune and Trieu's with those 3 mods being the only difference.

Mate,
I'll give a quick response 'cause there's lots of work to get through today.

Mods: dump pipe (sway bars, volk racing TE37s).

car: 2007 manual GT-B (no sunroof, sat nav.

dyno figures done in 4th gear with 98 octane (woolworths/caltex)

ambient temp was probably around 18-20 degrees C.

[gordy]

Mods: dump pipe (sway bars, volk racing TE37s).
car: 2007 manual GT-B (no sunroof, sat nav.

Wow, in that case the mufflers + centre pipe is worth ~30kw. Goes to show how crappy the oem stuff must be!

[smythie]

Different day, different car. Not sure those two variables would add up to 30kw atw, but really, it's all about the shape and driveability in the end isn't it?

[GTSPECB STI]

Tan, is your Liberty a manual and do you have a centre pipe & muffler as well as a pod intake? Just curious about the 30kw difference between your tune and Trieu's with those 3 mods being the only difference.

Mate,
I'll give a quick response 'cause there's lots of work to get through today.

Mods: dump pipe (sway bars, volk racing TE37s).

car: 2007 manual GT-B (no sunroof, sat nav.

dyno figures done in 4th gear with 98 octane (woolworths/caltex)

ambient temp was probably around 18-20 degrees C.

good work there on the tune! Open source for the win every time. If your tuner is using 4th gear of power run then you need to take into account the 4th gear ratio of 1.137 and divide that 164.3 by 1.137 to get an accurate figure of 144.5 kw atw.

[smythie]

Do you really see that sort of difference in power readings in different gears? Doesn't make a great deal of sense to me (as power = force multiplied by speed; and in a lower gear you will have a higher force but lower speed and a higher gear, lower force and higher speed - these will be close to proportional to the differences in gear ratios). I can really only see the difference in rotational inertia (of the driveline and dyno rollers/hubs) making any difference in readings between runs in different gears, though I haven't looked too deeply into the theory of it all.

[GTSPECB STI]

Do you really see that sort of difference in power readings in different gears? Doesn't make a great deal of sense to me (as power = force multiplied by speed; and in a lower gear you will have a higher force but lower speed and a higher gear, lower force and higher speed - these will be close to proportional to the differences in gear ratios). I can really only see the difference in rotational inertia (of the driveline and dyno rollers/hubs) making any difference in readings between runs in different gears, though I haven't looked too deeply into the theory of it all.

short answer is yes

[TorpedoCreative]

OFF TOPIC:
LOL, love your sig dave...

MY07 GT Spec B Tuned by STI #136 / 300 OBP
AVO TMIC / Phat Dump / 3" Centre / Hitech Quads / Whiteline F&R HD Sways / Dixel Slotted Rotors & Pads / Defi Gauges / CF Grill, Diffuser & Eyelids / Verso Tuned by Sean @ ASG / and some things that Jimmy doesn't know about

[birch_security]

Tan, is your Liberty a manual and do you have a centre pipe & muffler as well as a pod intake? Just curious about the 30kw difference between your tune and Trieu's with those 3 mods being the only difference.

Mate,
I'll give a quick response 'cause there's lots of work to get through today.

Mods: dump pipe (sway bars, volk racing TE37s).

car: 2007 manual GT-B (no sunroof, sat nav.

dyno figures done in 4th gear with 98 octane (woolworths/caltex)

ambient temp was probably around 18-20 degrees C.

good work there on the tune! Open source for the win every time. If your tuner is using 4th gear of power run then you need to take into account the 4th gear ratio of 1.137 and divide that 164.3 by 1.137 to get an accurate figure of 144.5 kw atw.

Nice catch, I was thinking the same (Almost).
You just used the wrong number. Divide the TORQUE, not power, by the entire drivetrain ratio, that is not just 4th gear, but also the Diff ratio.
But the REAL question we should be asking is was this accounted for on the dyno chart? I would assume yes as this would otherwise be a pretty simple and big error on the operator's part.
But again, 480Nm at the wheels is a big number, almost too big. Well if we get surprised at least it'll be in the right direction!

PS, who cares about kilowatts anyway?!?!

[sundayDriver]

Mate,
I'll give a quick response 'cause there's lots of work to get through today.

Mods: dump pipe (sway bars, volk racing TE37s).

car: 2007 manual GT-B (no sunroof, sat nav.

dyno figures done in 4th gear with 98 octane (woolworths/caltex)

ambient temp was probably around 18-20 degrees C.

good work there on the tune! Open source for the win every time. If your tuner is using 4th gear of power run then you need to take into account the 4th gear ratio of 1.137 and divide that 164.3 by 1.137 to get an accurate figure of 144.5 kw atw.

Nice catch, I was thinking the same (Almost).
You just used the wrong number. Divide the TORQUE, not power, by the entire drivetrain ratio, that is not just 4th gear, but also the Diff ratio.
But the REAL question we should be asking is was this accounted for on the dyno chart? I would assume yes as this would otherwise be a pretty simple and big error on the operator's part.
But again, 480Nm at the wheels is a big number, almost too big. Well if we get surprised at least it'll be in the right direction!

PS, who cares about kilowatts anyway?!?!

Thanks all, I'm happy with the tune. if I read the chart in it's most pessimistic light, the gains I got are in line with what I expected. and the big plus is how the power curve has been smoothed out which Paul suggested was better for the long term.

480Nm is bordering on v8 torque and I don't know if it's been corrected or not. but if you check out my graphs, the before max torque hits around 350Nm which is in line with the subaru published numbers.

also, if you check out trieu's chart, his after max torque hits something like 540Nm.

[parso_rex]

Even thought the ratio calculations might be correct It doesn't actually work out that way with the dyno there isn't a 20 kw difference between runs with various gear ratios you be lucky at that power level to see even 10.Smythie is right. See the dyno operator has to keep the speed within realistic ranges. Not many will run past 180 Kmhr with most usually a lot less. Another thing is you then run into things like tyre pressure and intake temps that can throw in a bit of variation between runs.
I scared the crap out of myself last night trying to get some 350 Kw runs in, the car almost climbed up on the rollers at one stage then another the wideband probe burned a section of one of the two rear straps (we had 4 all up ). The last run thing dropped 10 kws due to a 0.5 degree timing limit due to intake temperature. We could have just waited or modified the value but it was a sign to quit I think I was in need of a glass or two. We had a ceiling of 150 kmhr on these runs in an STI so you can only use say 4th gear or you'll never see a full range up to 7000 rpm. A liberty is geared even taller of course you can imagine what speed it would be in 5th gear @ 7000 rpm.
oh yeah I know its OT but I'm happy with the 340KW figure considering the liberty spec B is 125KW stock standard on this one a few hours apart

[parso_rex]

Forget the torque figures on all dynos they try and derive it from the tractive effort but it never works out accurately. You can compare care on the same dyno but thats about it

[parso_rex]

Here is the before and after power runs:

pulse_tune1s.jpg

Red solid line = before power
red dotted line = before torque
blue solid line = after power
blue dotted line = after torque

Do you know what boost and AFR's he was running or even better have a plot of same ?