Will this fit?....

[AdamW]

Can you PM me some details, like total cost, and ETA to get engine in?

[GTSPECB STI]

My tuner / mechanic is a guy named Sean Keating at Allstar Garage her in Perth and he has done several of these. They are cosworth agent in WA. Depending on where the Aussie $ is against the US$ will have some bearing I suggest. Also what level you take the engine with the cosworth goodies will also make a fair difference. I think $18-20K will get you a nice Cosworth built EJ20 and twin scroll turbo, pipes, tmic, and supporting parts. You could easily spend even more but hell where do you stop.

Check out these guys to get an idea of what sort of costs your up for. Cosworth will be more $ but not a lot.
http://store.crawfordperformance.com/st ... gories/264

[parso_rex]

No way will that get you a cosworth motor for that, its nice gear for sure but I remember figure of long motors being 25K . Hmm speaking of cosworth the other big horsepower car that was coming to the dyno day an Saturday just snapped an inlet cam during tuning this morning its not the first either. heartbreaking stuff.

I have been down this track twice now.
You can pick up a jap spec C twin scroll 2L from the Gnangara place for 7.5K complete. I know the idea of the 2L is good but its only good to a point. Yes it will rev but power wise once you move to a big turbo setup you have a deficit all the way through, same goes for torque . Stock for stock its a better deal but if you want over 250 "real" kW you will need new pistons, rods, cams, headstuds, headers, up-pipe, bigger TS turbo, injectors, fuel pump, valve springs and so on. If you want 300atw add a 14mm headstud conversion to that bigger injectors fuel system and a much bigger turbo oh and a big arse FMIC. You will then have a powerful but laggy beast of a motor that doesn't suit a heavier bodied liberty. You've also lost all that twin scroll goodness in the process unless you go aftermarket which is a whole other can of worms in itself for a RHD car.

Now the 2.5 that everyone loves to hate is an option if you do it right. The general consensus these days is don't go over 18 psi with supporting mods, you just can't afford to have any detonation if you want to keep your internals in one piece. 200~210kW is the limit unless you plan on blowing it up very quickly if theres someone running more here long term with much above that well I'm sorry you've been on a very optimistic dyno. I think there was one doing 260 with a big arse APS turbo and injectors but they were trying to blow it up . Anyway the 2.5L donk can be made stronger, stronger than the 2L block, with the addition of sleeves but you don't need these till you close on high 200's (real kWs)say 280 but even then some fail, the cylinder bores actually move and ovalise in the block. For a more practical and still pretty awesome 250kW you have to throw away the shitty non-forged hypereutectic pistons (used to meet Euro 4 emissions targets no doubt) replace with say CP and even though you might not need too, the rods as you have it apart. you don't need the sleeves either. A set of kelford cams some injectors a Walbro and your done
If you plan on getting 300 kW you'll need to go to 14mm headstuds which require significant maching of the block, heads and gaskets in order to fit the diameter of the studs.if you dont do this you might end up with what happened to my first motor where the studs stretched bye bye sleeved block, heads & CP's

The 2.5 will give you heaps of extra torque down low just due to its larger capacity and if you want twinscroll you can still do it too - just as you would have to do with the 2L anyway
The way to work out whats best for you is to look at the power figure you want and go back from there. You'll need to take a trip to the garrett site to workout what size turbo you'll need for both the engine capacities and for the same power you'll see a signifcant pressure ratio difference between the two setups. bigger pressure more chance of things breaking and more chance of detonation on pump gas
I've gone on too much but basically its not as simple as you might think once you go crazy. You're allowed to ignore all this BTW

[coyote]

Adam,

If you want a 2.5 that will make all the power you want and hold together (and are prepared to wait a while for it), I suggest you have a chat with the guy who has done all my mechanical work for 15 years.

It will mean he does ALL the work on the engine, but it will be worth it.

His name is Serge and his phone number is at the end of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EBSANE#p/a/u/0/hq0OkQ1KawE

Yes, I know for a FACT that the car was driven to the track, even filled up at a regular servo on the way with nothing but VPower in the tank, raced*, then driven home.


* It's not really racing - I give no fark for drags ... but Serge can build an engine.

[GTSPECB STI]

So lets rewind and ask AdamW what his intended use for this car and new engine will be? drag car only, track car with some street driving, daily driver, hill climb and and short track, rallying? Also if you want to see some good examples of both options for real then head over for a visit to perth-wrx dot com I suggest. I promise I wont ban you either Mark

[coyote]

No small town inferiority complex or chest beating here Dave, just giving Adam an option within 1000km of home.

[AdamW]

The more information the better.. I was putting out 230kW ATW with,

Exhaust - MRT Front Dump Pipe and Centre Section (Retains Rear STi Mufflers)
Intercooler - MRT / Hyperflow TMIC (new Cross Flow Design)
CAI - Hyperflow Cold Air Intake with k&N Pod Air Filter
Turbo - GTPS02TM (TD05 20G)
Headers - GT Spec Headers
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Fuel Pump - High Flow Fuel Pump
EcuTek Tune
About 16PSI

If I didn’t have the misfortune of dodgy mechanic I was told that my stock engine would have been fine with this, I guess I will never know.. With this rebuild I was thinking about leaving the EJ257 short motor from Subaru intact and just replacing the pistons (probably with CP's), headstuds, then upping the boost to 18-20PSI. My tuner said with current turbo it will max out at 240kW ATW absolute tops, but with the increased boost I will gain a bit more torque in the midrange (this was before ported and polished 06 STi heads, I might get a few more kW's now).. I am not really chasing anymore than this because it is mostly my daily driver with the occasional track day, the biggest turn off for massive power out of the Subaru it the massive turbo lag, and I want RELIABILITY, I have had supercharged V8's putting out way to much power and my car spent more time in the shop then on the road, once these mods are done I just want to enjoy my Liberty on a daily basis without having to worry about breaking anything.

So with the above mods and hoping to run a modest 240kW ATW, will the forged pistons be enough? Is there no real need to sleeve and install forged Rods?.. I guess if there is any doubt I would rather do the work, I want to be able to drive the car hard when I feel the urge..

Yeah I have heard good things about Flat 4 Performance..

[coyote]

My 50c worth is I think you could be okay with just pistons for what you are talking about. No need for sleeves, but why not do the rods when the new pistons go in? Pretty cheap insurance really.

I'd also suggest you consider injectors. I know you've upped the fuel pressure, but how far do you want to push that?

Those standard mufflers will be costing you a not insignificant amount of power too. Why not change them and reach your power goal with a slightly larger safety margin?

Good luck Adam.

[AdamW]

I was told they can swap pistons without pulling short engine apart, whereas if they do rods they will have to pull it apart. What are the limits of stock injectors? What are the issues with running too much fuel pressure? I really want to keep the car as quiet as possible, if there are a set of mufflers around that weren't too loud I would consider them, I also really like the look of the quad exhaust.

[parso_rex]

My 50c worth is I think you could be okay with just pistons for what you are talking about. No need for sleeves, but why not do the rods when the new pistons go in? Pretty cheap insurance really.

I'd also suggest you consider injectors. I know you've upped the fuel pressure, but how far do you want to push that?

Those standard mufflers will be costing you a not insignificant amount of power too. Why not change them and reach your power goal with a slightly larger safety margin?

Good luck Adam.

Agree for sure. The 02 turbo might not get you your 240 target I think thats being a touch optimistic it will get you close but with a nice fat torque curve. There's always the 03 if they have the cover for the factory location that it

Flat 4 have done some awesome stuff up there too

[smythie]

I was told they can swap pistons without pulling short engine apart, whereas if they do rods they will have to pull it apart.

That doesn't ring true to me but I haven't pulled one of these apart. Anyone able to help an interested ingorant out?

[PHAT GT]

my 20c worth

230kw atw sounds very high for that turbo at 16psi

you would have needed injectors at anything over 220kw even with pump and reg

YOU NEED INJECTORS 550cc + x4

you engine let go due to a severe lean out and bad timing

lose the top mount as intake heat is the biggest killer of power and engines

stock engine will be fine with the basic power mods (yes i know pistons and maybe rods will help) turbo,fuel pump,injectors,reg,full exhaust,FMIC,good boost control and a good intake to make 230kw atw all day every day

you just need a big gun tuner to get it right

..........................................................................................................................................................................

this is not directed at the poor guy that lost and engine i just dont want to type out another post

as for comments made about a 2.5 spec B liberty making 260kw + atw on pump gas (unopened) ill be happy to slap it on anyones dyno (and a few others) and this is no lag monster

my own 2.0Gt was making 250odd kw atw on pump gas (unopened) and its seen a few track days in its time and was happy to see 20-22 psi all day long for the past 25000+ kilometres (this was fitted with all hi end custom mods) that was the old turbo/fuel setup now in another lib...new one coming!!!

no these are no happy dyno numbers as im to old and wise for this rubbish given out by some tuners

its all in the setup and the tune and yes it is a science

[parso_rex]

my 20c worth

as for comments made about a 2.5 spec B liberty making 260kw + atw on pump gas (unopened) ill be happy to slap it on anyones dyno (and a few others) and this is no lag monster
my own 2.0Gt was making 250odd kw atw on pump gas (unopened) and its seen a few track days in its time and was happy to see 20-22 psi all day long for the past 25000+ kilometres (this was fitted with all hi end custom mods) that was the old turbo/fuel setup now in another lib...new one coming!!!

You realise both these motors would have to put out over 300 kWs at the flywheel, thats certainly very impressive for a stock motor

[PHAT GT]

my 20c worth

as for comments made about a 2.5 spec B liberty making 260kw + atw on pump gas (unopened) ill be happy to slap it on anyones dyno (and a few others) and this is no lag monster
my own 2.0Gt was making 250odd kw atw on pump gas (unopened) and its seen a few track days in its time and was happy to see 20-22 psi all day long for the past 25000+ kilometres (this was fitted with all hi end custom mods) that was the old turbo/fuel setup now in another lib...new one coming!!!

You realise both these motors would have to put out over 300 kWs at the flywheel, thats certainly very impressive for a stock motor

not that impressive but one did show a new lambo owner who not to play with on the M5, but the next Lib out the door will be a hand full

impressive is a 05 2.0gt auto (unopened) wagon pushing out 238kw atw @20psi (daily driver) that chirps the tyres in 3rd gear driven by a guy with no legs due to the iraq war fighting terrorist.

i dont know how he does it with only hand controls on the wheel for the go and stop peddles.

there are a few members on this forum making a good 220+++ kw atw that dont feel the need to post given the attack they will recieve for there claims and i dont blame them.if you are one of the lucky ones to have been in any of these cars or to pull up along side one giving a bit of cheek you will know what a fast unopened liberty goes like.

[AdamW]

The automotive industry is a funny one, you can speak to ten different people about these things and hear twelve different stories, my tuner was running my car at 226kW comfortably (before the final tune) with stock injectors and it was going fine (including a couple of track days), until the recent lack of oil incident.. I also met some guys at the track days who were running the same set up as I was (same turbo, boost and supporting mods in 07 & 08 STi's) and they were pushing out 240kW ATW with no issues..

People like Mercury Motorsport annoy me because when you initially talk to them about mods they are all super keen to build you a +400kW engine and replace / rebuild everything on your car and charge you an unknown fortune to do it, but this has to be a no questions asked arrangement, when you start asking questions and when you tell them what you actually want out of your car (that you don’t want a 400kW turbo with massive turbo lag, you don’t want cams etc) and that you want a guaranteed quote and an ETA to do the work that you want done to your car, all of a sudden they aren't they aren't keen to produce anything at all or hear from you…. This just brings back memories of the dodgy workshops that I have dealt with in the past who turned me off modifying cars for a few years.