Seeking some mod advice for Spec B Wagon for a budget

[jslayz]

Marty, you have an Auto, drone will enter the cabin.
I suggest the K2 Gear exhaust if you want more sporty sound / flow as it it does not drone.

J

[kiahatsiu]

Well the exhaust will give 5-10 kw more at the wheels, which is a noticable difference.

[Manaz]

Well the exhaust will give 5-10 kw more at the wheels, which is a noticable difference.

I've heard from reliable sources that changing the mufflers alone can give 5kW at the wheels once a car is tuned...

[Martymuso]

Marty, you have an Auto, drone will enter the cabin.
I suggest the K2 Gear exhaust if you want more sporty sound / flow as it it does not drone.

J

I have a manual 6 speed...I hope that's what you meant by Auto...as in the transmission otherwise I just made myself look like an idiot lol. If that is what you mean will this drone be different in a manual? I must admit I don't understand what drone means exactly. I am assuming like a groany exhaust sound? or like a resonance that occurs with autos?

Well the exhaust will give 5-10 kw more at the wheels, which is a noticeable difference.

I've heard from reliable sources that changing the mufflers alone can give 5kW at the wheels once a car is tuned...

Oh really so even after a tune if the exhaust is changed to a 3" cat back system etc there could be more power gains? I suppose this comes back to some sort of compression ratio from the combustion of more fuel and having less restriction on the output / exhaust? or am I talking s**t? lol sorry just trying to get my head round it!

[jslayz]

Hah!, I would have sworn yours was an Auto transmission.

Getting old, drinking beer, recollection failing!

Ultrex/Xforce will be fine, check out one of the members rides in person to be sure...

J

[Manaz]

I have a manual 6 speed...I hope that's what you meant by Auto...as in the transmission otherwise I just made myself look like an idiot lol. If that is what you mean will this drone be different in a manual? I must admit I don't understand what drone means exactly. I am assuming like a groany exhaust sound? or like a resonance that occurs with autos?

Yep, he was referring to the gearbox. There are differences (particularly in the downpipe) between the exhaust path on an auto compared to a manual, and there is a slight difference in the way exhausts behave between manual and auto due to the way an automatic gearbox and engine behave together.

Drone is an annoying "droning" (sorry, it's hard to describe otherwise) noise that occurs at particular revs or load conditions - and you're right, it's generally caused by resonance. It's often noticeable at highway speed cruise - the exhaust will sound louder and "boomier" than you expect it to given the revs, and the noise is constant and quite annoying (it can make a trip "tiring").

It's also generally worse in wagons than in sedans, because the back of a wagon is more open and can more easily transmit exhaust noises back into the cabin - in a sedan, the boot is sealed, and that provides a sound barrier. The back of a wagon is also more voluminous, and that can have its own issues and create its own resonance.

A well designed system will have minimal drone. A good centre muffler/resonator can often quieten down a boomy/drone-prone exhaust.

Oh really so even after a tune if the exhaust is changed to a 3" cat back system etc there could be more power gains? I suppose this comes back to some sort of compression ratio from the combustion of more fuel and having less restriction on the output / exhaust? or am I talking s**t? lol sorry just trying to get my head round it!

Yes, there is more power to be gained by replacing a stock "cat-back" exhaust with a larger diameter exhaust, as it will flow better. This isn't always true on an NA engine (exhaust tuning on NA engines can be quite a tricky business - almost an art - because a given volume of gas will travel faster down a narrower pipe than a wider pipe, and that can assist with cyclinder scavenging, but too narrow and it becomes restrictive at higher revs), but is almost always true on a turbo-charged engine.

As you already have a downpipe, you may not need a tune revision after you fit a cat-back exhaust, but you may benefit from one - the best person to ask this is your tuner.

You're on the right track. Not static compression ratio (which is measured inside the cylinders of the engine, and is simply a function of the ratio between the volume of the cylinder with the piston at the top and bottom of the stroke), but the turbo can work "better" with less back-pressure. A 3" system has less back-pressure than a smaller diameter system, and you'd almost certainly be going for a system with mandrel-bent corners, not press-bent - any back-pressure you can remove means the turbo can breathe more freely - and then it can work with your ECU to achieve more power.

[Sean82]

Well the exhaust will give 5-10 kw more at the wheels, which is a noticable difference.

I've heard from reliable sources that changing the mufflers alone can give 5kW at the wheels once a car is tuned...

This is true but if the OP isn't after every last kW and is more concerned with not having a loud zorst, there's no point worrying about IME; I ran 12.9@106 in my Foz with stock cat-back... if it wasn't lowered, it would've been a brilliant sleeper

[kiahatsiu]

I was think along the lines of the exhaust being one of the easiest mods to do that also yeilds some of the most tangible results. Picking the low hanging fruit if you will.
Now on the subject of drone; I found with equal length headers fitted my drone went away, and my was nice and quiet. Different story now with 4" dump though.

[Manaz]

Well the exhaust will give 5-10 kw more at the wheels, which is a noticable difference.

I've heard from reliable sources that changing the mufflers alone can give 5kW at the wheels once a car is tuned...

This is true but if the OP isn't after every last kW and is more concerned with not having a loud zorst, there's no point worrying about IME; I ran 12.9@106 in my Foz with stock cat-back... if it wasn't lowered, it would've been a brilliant sleeper

My point was that replacing the exhaust from the cat-back should be able to free up more than just 5-10kW.

An exhaust doesn't have to be loud to flow well.

[Martymuso]

I have a manual 6 speed...I hope that's what you meant by Auto...as in the transmission otherwise I just made myself look like an idiot lol. If that is what you mean will this drone be different in a manual? I must admit I don't understand what drone means exactly. I am assuming like a groany exhaust sound? or like a resonance that occurs with autos?

Yep, he was referring to the gearbox. There are differences (particularly in the downpipe) between the exhaust path on an auto compared to a manual, and there is a slight difference in the way exhausts behave between manual and auto due to the way an automatic gearbox and engine behave together.

Drone is an annoying "droning" (sorry, it's hard to describe otherwise) noise that occurs at particular revs or load conditions - and you're right, it's generally caused by resonance. It's often noticeable at highway speed cruise - the exhaust will sound louder and "boomier" than you expect it to given the revs, and the noise is constant and quite annoying (it can make a trip "tiring").

It's also generally worse in wagons than in sedans, because the back of a wagon is more open and can more easily transmit exhaust noises back into the cabin - in a sedan, the boot is sealed, and that provides a sound barrier. The back of a wagon is also more voluminous, and that can have its own issues and create its own resonance.

A well designed system will have minimal drone. A good center muffler/resonator can often quieten down a boomy/drone-prone exhaust.

Oh really so even after a tune if the exhaust is changed to a 3" cat back system etc there could be more power gains? I suppose this comes back to some sort of compression ratio from the combustion of more fuel and having less restriction on the output / exhaust? or am I talking s**t? lol sorry just trying to get my head round it!

Yes, there is more power to be gained by replacing a stock "cat-back" exhaust with a larger diameter exhaust, as it will flow better. This isn't always true on an NA engine (exhaust tuning on NA engines can be quite a tricky business - almost an art - because a given volume of gas will travel faster down a narrower pipe than a wider pipe, and that can assist with cyclinder scavenging, but too narrow and it becomes restrictive at higher revs), but is almost always true on a turbo-charged engine.

As you already have a downpipe, you may not need a tune revision after you fit a cat-back exhaust, but you may benefit from one - the best person to ask this is your tuner.

You're on the right track. Not static compression ratio (which is measured inside the cylinders of the engine, and is simply a function of the ratio between the volume of the cylinder with the piston at the top and bottom of the stroke), but the turbo can work "better" with less back-pressure. A 3" system has less back-pressure than a smaller diameter system, and you'd almost certainly be going for a system with mandrel-bent corners, not press-bent - any back-pressure you can remove means the turbo can breathe more freely - and then it can work with your ECU to achieve more power.

This is an excellent piece of information than you so much!

I have just had a tune done by Matt from Kido Tuning and I must say I am so glad I did this first. My car finally feels like it should do with no jittery flat spots and a very nice torque band. A few other nice improvements also which is a pleasant surprise such as my brakes responding better and a flat foot gear shift over 6k rev. This thing is like a rocket now. It also seems to be more economical too as the fuel usage has dropped. Also fixed the idle issue on the aircon which I thought was load of the compressor!
Such nice guy to deal with and very informative! Highly recommended. Also he said it is a tune for life so if I need tweaking he will do it at no extra cost on his next visit to Perth.. honestly this tune has pretty much solved 90% of my requirements for performance which I think the other 10% will be resolved with a 3" CBE!

So far this little journey and post has moved my car development on quite substantially as well as improving my knowledge about this car. I am very grateful for the input!
Also big thanks to Dan for telling me Matt was in the area

[jslayz]

mmmm first tune is always a noticable difference!
Glad to hear you are enjoying the car more!

[d-chang]

Matt is here this coming weekend Marty!! Hit him up quick!!

kido_tuning on the forums!!

A whole bunch of us are going to see him

Seriously!? How do I not know this!? Details of when and where?

He's here til tomorrow evening... I've been having issues with my car so going to see him first thing in the morning... stupid EcuTek....

[d-chang]

That's awesome Marty!! Looking forward to hopefully catching up with you at the next cruise!! Haven't seen you since I got lost in Northam!! hahahaha!

[jslayz]

Matt is here this coming weekend Marty!! Hit him up quick!!

kido_tuning on the forums!!

A whole bunch of us are going to see him

Seriously!? How do I not know this!? Details of when and where?

He's here til tomorrow evening... I've been having issues with my car so going to see him first thing in the morning... stupid EcuTek....

ECUTEK NOT PROBLEM, TUNE SETTINGS WILL BE.

ECU JUST DOES WHAT IT IS TOLD.

[Manaz]

ECUTEK NOT PROBLEM, TUNE SETTINGS WILL BE.

ECU JUST DOES WHAT IT IS TOLD.

The way that ECUTEK is locked into the ECU and required specialist assistance (at a cost which is almost always not disclosed to the customer when the ECUTEK tune is implemented) to remove *is* a problem.