Thoughs and Questions: simple ej257 build.

[kiahatsiu]

Well, I have been leaning on a 2.0 for a while now, and I figure it is time to thinking about a new bottom end. Now, I understand one can throw a lot of money at an ej and make foolish numbers, but I am thinking (and bear with me here, this is strange for me) I don't need that much power. This will be a kind of interim build.
My idea is to use the heads I have, the z20s i think they are with some 272/270 cams. I am thinking no headwork, as if I go down that path i will just go overboard, and might as well do an ez30. At worst I might give the ports a clean up or some such thing. Bottom end would be fairly simple affair, ej257 with some eagle rods, good rod bolts and cp pistons. I would also want some form of "good" sump, as I intend on doing a few track days.
I already have a good base with respect to after market equal length headers, FMIC, custom inlet and silicon tube thingo and a cbrd bbk-l, which I think work pretty well on a 2.5. I am not too concerned with out put, it will make what it makes...and if I get the urge there are few paths I can go down, 3076 or ez30 + stupidity.

So questions: anyone have a recommendation for a "drop in" dual avcs cam? I have noticed a few guys have had trouble with cams from reputable companies.

Sumps: anyone have experience with aftermarket sumps? Realistically I will get one from PMS in Brisbane, as they will most likey be the crowd doing the bottom end.

Will a semi closed deck hold up with 24, 25, 26 psi? If I can get away without dowling it I would be happy.

I still want to spin it to 7.5k, so, even though I quoted eagle rods in my blurb, is there a rod that costs only a little more and will be more suited?

Dr20t, I am sure you can answer most of these questions. I know you have done a few realistic budgets/build lists for a 257, but I am thinking I don't need to go to that extreem.

[senator]

What exactly are you trying to achieve with the ej25 build???...... quick daily, track pig, mummy wagon with bite????

Since you’re a banana bender, Speak to Serge from Flat four…. He had some great prices and advice when I consider building something not so crazy.

btw this idea wins.......

3076 or ez30 + stupidity.

[kiahatsiu]

yeah, ez30 with a 4088 is the dollar for dollar performance winner, but every way i look at it is going to cost 20k. I have no qualms dropping that on a motor, i am just starting to realise it is complete overkill. Either way i realise I am going to need something in the interium.
The goal with a 257 would be something that could reliably make a bit more power and be more 'flexible' than my ej20 which has 160k on it, (pretty fresh heads though). It would allow me to keep all the accessories I have now and the computer, and have something that is nicer to drive. I also may need to move to cairns for a bout 12 months, where eflex isn't available on the pump, so something that makes a bit more grunt on 98 would be nice.
I have spoken to A&Mauto and they have a 257 bottom end there now, add some forgies, rods, bolts and bearing and away we go.

edit: so to answer your question, quick daily, with the ability to do the odd track day. I understand the bulk work that needs to be done to make a track pig motor.

[dja]

I would do the following:
but a new short motor: 2300
11mm headstuds: 200
forged pistons and rods :8-900

So you have a descent bottom end for 250kw+

I would grab some AUDM 2.5STI heads these go from 1-2k
And some kelford 220C cams to suit.

Throw it all together with some big injectors, turbo and a good tune, and your home and hosed.

[kiahatsiu]

Okay, bottom end sorted. More on that later.

As for heads, I am keen on finding a bit more about the z20s. Internets tell me they are pretty much the same port size or bigger than the same year STI ones, with a smaller combustion chamber. 48.something vs 50cc. Those, with a clean up and no port shaping plus some 272s would give me some interesting results.

[SH30RB]

3076 or ez30 + stupidity.

this wins, hands down Ian!

and will help give me guidance for my build in a years time!

[rooby]

Why not take a trip to GT4788sville?

[kiahatsiu]

Long story about gt4708's vill. A mate had an accident in a car with one, and is now doing a bit of time, so I am leaning away from that much power now. It was really tempting.
Have sourced a new 257 with manley i beams and platinum forgies, nitrided crank, 12mm oil pump, 14mm studs and total seal rings...and this price is right.

[dr20t]

Gday Ian - sorry I didn't see this earlier (have been overseas until late last week so havent been reading much)

Glad you sourced a solid block for the "right" price - interested to see what the "right" price actually was if you don't mind me asking. Pm if you prefer or if not at all then that's cool too

In terms of my advice for reliable power between 270-300, then this is my pick:

New 257 block - 2500
Cp pistons - 600
Rods (anything but eagle) - 600
High flow oil pump (cosworth mid range) 350
Reco heads - 800
Slight porting - 800
New valve springs 300
Cams - 1100
Sump - 450
Gasket kit 400
Timing kit 350
Water pump 120
Misc 300 (thermostat, hoses, caps, plugs etc)
Labour 500 to 1500 depending on who and what you know

Total 9200 - 10,200

You could take out the cost of porting and cams and reduce that cost by 2000, but that might reduce your reliable power levels to about 260-280 and not be as responsive.

Pros to above: fairly budget, reliable, nothing too over the top, will make reliable power for a while if pieced together properly.

Cons: still not balanced or blueprinted, will still cost more to chase more power in future if you wanted it (which may result in some double costing), still semi closed or semi opened depending on whether you're pessismistic or not , would be a shame not to spend a slight bit more and have so much more potential.

I would add the following to the above if it were me:

- sleeving (1800 or so including machining and dry sleeves)
- balancing entire rotating mass (250 plus reassembly cost of short block say another 300-400)
- close decking (1000)
- high flow oil pump (cosworth's top pump - 550 total or another 200 on top of the above price I listed)
- L19 headstuds (450)
- arp main studs (350)
- new o/s valves (300)
- cosworth headgaskets (220)

That's another $4900 to the above. That's under 15k but throw another 3k in ancillaries / injectors / fuel pump and sell your old parts to recover say 1-1.5k of that, and for under 17k you have a motor capable of 320-350kw atw

if you wanted to go just a little more crazy you could spend another 2-2.5k in porting than the above budget (total of say 4500) and you have up to 400 potential awkw. Bottom end above should handle 450+ awkw limit will be head flow, turbo, fueling and driveline.

As for the 2.0 l quad avcs liberty heads - I've been sworn to secrecy by someone over something - but I will say this - do NOT ever get rid of these heads for any other subie heads unless they're quad avcs jdm Sti spec c heads.

Good luck mate cant wait til your beast is done in it's latest incarnation

Mick

[kiahatsiu]

Dr.20t: Paid xxxx for the bottom end. Deshele built new 257, 12mm oil pump, nitrided crank, manley H beams, manley platinum forgies, total seal gapless rings, possum born 14mm studs and ACL bearings. A few other things I cannot remember. Basically something stout enough to do some track days in.
Heads are simply going to be mine with some drop in 264/260s. Recoed and maybe a bit of a clean up (was budgeting about 800 a head).
Decided to stay with the factory ECU as coyote has done a fair bit a maf and injector scaling, so we are ahead of the curve there. Have also been researching SD tuning for standard ecu's, which has got me somewhat intrigued.
If it makes over 250 on 98 and 300ish on e85 i'll be happy. Dyno number are just dyno number as you no doubt understand. I want reliable, 117ish (high teens to 120) mph (which i think might be a little wishful) and more torque than the 2.0.

[dr20t]

Aaaahh a leemo built block - fair enough. I know exactly what it would've cost you I think

That was another option i had except I wasnt comfortable with lack of close decking or sleeving

The pbms head studs are decent as is the oil pump selection

And yep completely see your point- 115-118mph will definitely be possible with e85 and 300 ish atw, plus some real track fun

Drop in cams sound perfect for what you're chasing and oem ecu will be more than adequate

Like I said can't wait to see this beast finished (you beat me to it as I've been talking about it for too long!!)

Keep us posted

Mick