club.liberty.asn.au

Side feed to top feed injector conversion - looks like part of my cold start issues are due to the awful side feed injectors, so I've decided to upgrade to top feed.
The issues now are:
* Do I got for a conversion kit or get new TGVs+rails - conversion kit seems simpler and less costly, and I can't see there would be any difference in performance.
* Some rails apparently foul the AVCS? which brands do/don't work - they all talk about the EJ25, not the EJ20X (single vs dual AVCS).
* Easiest option is the DW 1000 conversion kit for $900, though there's a (DW) conversion kit on ebay atm for $250 (sans injectors), which would save me a few hundred.

Do I need or should I install new fuel lines (i.e. convert to a splitter rather than a loop system) at the same time?

I might be able to get TGV's and top feed fuel rails cheaply - if it's not going to be a stupid amount more labour, this would be an cheaper option, but is it worthwhile?

Hey Matt,

Plenty of heavily modded 2.0 litres running nicely with side feeds - no cold start (or any other issues) - maybe your issues have been mis-diagnosed.

Unless producing very large power (with E85) is on the horizon, I think the top feeds are a low value proposition.

That said, I would go ID1000s with relevant top rail conversion.

Fab

Who told you its the "shitty side feeds" that's causing cold start issues?

Granted there are limitations to the size of injector you can go on a side feed (whilst still retaining good enough latency) , but unless you need more than 280awkw on e85 then no need to go to top feed conversion.

The ones to use are the 2008 onwards Sti rails, as these were also dual avcs so any suitable fuel rails for them will work with yours.

This morning my cold start was terrible - This is the log.
http://datazap.me/u/hardwarebob/cold-st ... 9-14-16-17

Started on the 8th try, and needed an accelerator blip to actually get up to proper rpm.

Matt's suggested it is a lot to do with the shitty spray pattern of the side feeds when cold, combined with E85. Future plans are a 1.5XT-R twinscroll or similar, and looking to about 300kw, so I will have to upgrade injectors again in any case. If I can do it now and fix my cold start issues as well, then it's a good deal.

With winter about to come quite harshly (I can see it getting down to below 0 this winter multiple times), at the moment I am thinking that a switch to 98 might be necessary in the short term to use the car until I can get the cold start sorted - the wife is very shitty about the cold start situation.

FWIW I am using Process Enterprise 850 side feeds at 60psi

HardwareBoB wrote:This morning my cold start was terrible - This is the log.
http://datazap.me/u/hardwarebob/cold-st ... 9-14-16-17

Started on the 8th try, and needed an accelerator blip to actually get up to proper rpm.

Matt's suggested it is a lot to do with the shitty spray pattern of the side feeds when cold, combined with E85. Future plans are a 1.5XT-R twinscroll or similar, and looking to about 300kw, so I will have to upgrade injectors again in any case. If I can do it now and fix my cold start issues as well, then it's a good deal.

With winter about to come quite harshly (I can see it getting down to below 0 this winter multiple times), at the moment I am thinking that a switch to 98 might be necessary in the short term to use the car until I can get the cold start sorted - the wife is very shitty about the cold start situation.

FWIW I am using Process Enterprise 850 side feeds at 60psi

Looking at your log - this doesn't look like anything to do with the "shitty spray pattern of the side feeds when cold, combined with E85" - your car isn't idling badly, it's dying altogether. Someone needs to sort out the cold start fuelling tables in your tune.

When the tune doesn't add enough fuel this will also happen with the top feeds with ID1000s. Already made that mistake with 2 different tuners, so you don't have to!

PE850's are notorious for it, the US tuners have the same issue(with various latency values that are way off what PE recommends). I have fixed it in numerous US tunes to be better and higher FP does help. The PE specific spray pattern on them wets the valve, less pulse width on higher pressure helps cold start. I didnt dyno tune it, I am just the one helping with cold start between other projects(no charge) and I suspect the MAF rescale on dyno has affected the cold start

DW825's are starting first go in various cars, PE latency and spray is the issue. RomRaider's latency table will shift values each time its 'calibrated'
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic2658.html

It really needs battery voltage added to logs as well

07+ ECU's are much easier to get nailed

HardwareBoB wrote:
Matt's suggested it is a lot to do with the shitty spray pattern of the side feeds when cold, combined with E85. Future plans are a 1.5XT-R twinscroll or similar, and looking to about 300kw, so I will have to upgrade injectors again in any case. If I can do it now and fix my cold start issues as well, then it's a good deal.

Mate - I regularly drive a 270kw atw (non E85) 05 GT with a built 2.5 that runs DW850 side feeds - no issues at all.

Save the money on the conversion, get your tune reviewd and buy a 6 spd instead........you may need it.....

fibble wrote:

HardwareBoB wrote:
Matt's suggested it is a lot to do with the shitty spray pattern of the side feeds when cold, combined with E85. Future plans are a 1.5XT-R twinscroll or similar, and looking to about 300kw, so I will have to upgrade injectors again in any case. If I can do it now and fix my cold start issues as well, then it's a good deal.

Mate - I regularly drive a 270kw atw (non E85) 05 GT with a built 2.5 that runs DW850 side feeds - no issues at all.

Save the money on the conversion, get your tune reviewd and buy a 6 spd instead........you may need it.....

I also prefer the DW850's as well

DW850s with 60psi rail pressure was on the Revzone dyno the day yours was on, it starts first crank even this morning at 6 degrees

Latency at low voltage affects the final pulse width, cranking tables then are altered as well etc

My car started fine on pe850s. Also made 400hp at wheels (albeit for a few dyno pulls only) without being maxed out. It started better than my id1300s.